What would you do - I'm screwed!

This is a discussion on What would you do - I'm screwed! within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I was listening to the TV this morning before leaving for work. I live in PA about 45 miles or so north and east of ...

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Thread: What would you do - I'm screwed!

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    New Member Array mugsie's Avatar
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    Question What would you do - I'm screwed!

    I was listening to the TV this morning before leaving for work. I live in PA about 45 miles or so north and east of Philly. Apparently there was some joker in Philly asking people for help with an ATM or something like that. Of course some people stopped to help, and when they did he would inform them he had a gun, then proceed to take their money. He kept his hand in his pocket. There were also no other people around obviously.

    Now - I carry and I'm wondering - what would I do? If I shoot the guy, and he doesn't have a gun, I'm screwed. If I don't shoot the guy and he does, I'm screwed. If I shoot him, he dies or doesn't die, it's my word against his. I can see it now - officer, I was standing here when this guy (me) with a gun comes up, demands my money and shoots me. I'm screwed.

    I can see no way out of this if he's not brandishing. Any ideas? What would you do?

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    I'd ignore them and keep on walking. Why even put yourself in a position for something like that to happen?

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    If somebody implies they have a gun even tho you can't see one and you believe he has a gun,It's armed robbery,and here in Tx he may end up perforated
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    Senior Member Array BamaSteve's Avatar
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    I was just reading up on Alabama self defense laws after reading about tnmike's encounter, and here if it is reasonable to believe that another person is or is about to threaten your, or a third person's, safety you are justified in using force. Check out handgunlaw.us for your state's information
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    Senior Member Array PaulJ's Avatar
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    You are usually cleared to shoot if you reasonably believe that the other party has a gun and is about to use it. The problem is to prove it in court if necessary.
    Maybe you are lucky and the responding police officer is on your side.

    If not, then all for sudden, you shot and killed a young father of 5, who was just about to get his live together, and even would have gone to church next Sunday. The reason that the surveilance tapes show him walk up and down in front of the ATM that day was that he was waiting for a ride to the drug rehab center he was going to sign up with. You have local community leaders talk on his behalf and how it was your fault that he did a similar hold up a few years back.


    It all depends on how you spin it. And not having physical evidence doesn't help.
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    Senior Member Array BamaSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulJ View Post
    You are usually cleared to shoot if you reasonably believe that the other party has a gun and is about to use it. The problem is to prove it in court if necessary.
    Maybe you are lucky and the responding police officer is on your side.

    If not, then all for sudden, you shot and killed a young father of 5, who was just about to get his live together, and even would have gone to church next Sunday. The reason that the surveilance tapes show him walk up and down in front of the ATM that day was that he was waiting for a ride to the drug rehab center he was going to sign up with. You have local community leaders talk on his behalf and how it was your fault that he did a similar hold up a few years back.


    It all depends on how you spin it. And not having physical evidence doesn't help.
    See, in that case I would think that it would go in your favor due to the fact that there is prior history of this type of behavior from that man. Assuming you have a clean history, I would think a jury/judge would side in favor of the defendant. But with these things you never know. As I've heard on here several time, better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6.

    But as someone else stated, the best thing to do when someone asks you to come over to them, just keep walking...go with gut instinct. I try to treat them like the annoying people with the booths in the malls that try to hunt you down and sell you some worthless crap. Just keep on walking
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    Member Array Glock23MI's Avatar
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    Just make sure he gets caught on the ATM video with the "gun" in his pocket and you should be OK. Video is pretty damning evidence.

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    Member Array Engine1's Avatar
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    I have heard from several sources, none of which I can remember now, that the ATM cameras only start recording when a card has been inserted. Anyone know if this is true or not true?
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    Member Array Quiet1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Engine1 View Post
    I have heard from several sources, none of which I can remember now, that the ATM cameras only start recording when a card has been inserted. Anyone know if this is true or not true?
    Engine 1,

    It is true that the ATM camera only takes a picture of the user when a transaction is initiated. However, there would almost always be a separate surveillance camera (or, cameras) placed nearby that monitor the ATM and surrounding area and that camera records non stop.

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    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    In most states it is what your perception as a reasonable man that counts. You don't have to see the gun if it is reasonable for you to believe he has one and will use it on you.
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    Distinguished Member Array C9H13NO3's Avatar
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    Kind of like OP of http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...-today-16.html

    He never saw a gun. Someone acting suspicious and hostile, made a threatening move. Never even said he had a gun. OP drew, and ended the situation.

    I know that someone keeping a "gun in the pocket" is different though. They could shoot you through the pocket if they aren't bluffing. Not sure how I'd handle it. Probably a shoot. They verbalized that they had intent, opportunity, and ability to use deadly force against you.
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    jfl
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    The best way to win a gunfight is avoiding the situation; that's why my sig says "Don't be there".
    A situation that mixes a total stranger and a money source in a situation I did not initiate is a no go in my book
    The first rule of a gunfight: "Don't be there !"
    The second rule: "Bring enough gun"

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    CDH
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    For my part, if the situation is exactly like the OP described, then any video would show the perp with his hand in his pocket, so the claim of the intended victim and how the incident progressed would be easily proven.

    Then to the next question: if someone tells me that they have a gun in their pocket, then I am going to believe them and act accordingly.
    I am totally willing to let a jury of my peers decide if I am entitled to believe what a person says about threatening my life with a deadly weapon whether I am allowed to see that weapon (before I act) or not.

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    Member Array JohnHenry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDH View Post
    Then to the next question: if someone tells me that they have a gun in their pocket, then I am going to believe them and act accordingly.
    I am totally willing to let a jury of my peers decide if I am entitled to believe what a person says about threatening my life with a deadly weapon whether I am allowed to see that weapon (before I act) or not.
    This is my thinking. Massad Ayoob states somewhat regularly in some of his books that a valid defense is believing the BG when he tells you he has a gun, or if he is reaching behind him with a motion that most reasonable people would interpret as a gun. It doesn't have to exist, it is only necessary that you believe that it does. Anything after that is occurring with the presumption that there is a gun.

    That being said, I agree with the "don't be there" philosophy if you can do that. It's cheaper to just not be in that situation. Of course, if the BG walks up and just says he has a gun and give him your money, you're in it, like it or not.
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    Senior Member Array BlackPR's Avatar
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    It's easy to play scenarios, but you forgot the most important result.

    #1: YOU SURVIVE.

    After that, everything else is relatively minor, including the legalities.
    The facts are indisputable. There is more data supporting the benefits of Conceal Carry than there is supporting global warming. If you choose ignorance, in light of all the evidence, in order to bolster your irrational fear of guns, you are a greater threat to society than any gun owner.

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