Run or Engage?

Run or Engage?

This is a discussion on Run or Engage? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; What I would like for you to do is to read the first part of this post, make a decision as to your course of ...

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Thread: Run or Engage?

  1. #1
    Member Array carver's Avatar
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    Run or Engage?

    What I would like for you to do is to read the first part of this post, make a decision as to your course of action, post that decision, then read the rest of the post. I am posting this the way that I am to hopefully make you think about this one, as I have!

    Scenario: You and your SO are out to have a nice meal at your favorite restaurant. You are armed with your favorite side arm, as usual. As you start to open the door for her, you hear BANG!, a gun shot. As you look up at where the shot came from, you are looking at the shooter from his 7 o'clock position. The shooter fires a second shot just as you spot him, and quickly swings to his left a few degrees and fires twice more. You do not see the other target, but can hear, that another shot has been fired and glass somewhere is broken! All shots are fired within just a few seconds. If you decide to engage the shooter you are behind him on his left, a good place to be in this case. What do you do? Run, or engage the shooter? Do not read any further. Decide what you should do, and post that decision. Then read the remainder of this post.











    If you decided to back out the door, and get out of the way, while calling 911, then this might have been the best choice you have made in a while! What you did not see was that a short time before your arrival two BG's had entered the restaurant to rob it and it's customers. As they came in the door they had fired two shots into the ceiling to get everyone's attention. The shooter you saw was an off duty LEO. The LEO was watching things unfold, as one of the BG's took the money form the register, while the other one was going around with a pillow case having the customers place their valuables into it. When the LEO saw one of the BG's strike a customer with his firearm, and threaten to kill him if he did not comply, and then did shoot the un-willing victim. The LEO saw that he had to take out both BG's and went for it before someone else got shot. This is what you saw!

    I was out the other night with the wife at a steak house for supper, and got wondering what I would do if I walked into this situation. My first thought was to engage the shooter. Drop the gun or I will shoot, type thing. The next morning I was reading the posts on this forum, and someone made a statement that made me think again about this.

    Did you make the right call? If not, then maybe we should all think about our roll, and our responsibility as legally armed private citizens! We are not the cops! We do not make arrests, nor do we engage the BG's unless we have no choice at all! We must, at all times, be aware that things might not always be what they seam to be, and act with the utmost care. The LEO in the story above, could have been you, or me!
    Y'all be safe now, ya hear!

    The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
    Thomas Jefferson


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Your telling me that I must be deaf or the BG's are mute,the scenario you have outlined would have the BG"s yelling out for everybody to stay down etc.Besides the fact I've never been in a restaurant where I couldn't see everything
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  3. #3
    Member Array bonehead's Avatar
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    Take cover, call 911. You have no idea who is who. For all you know, the shooter is an LEO....how'd I do?
    HK45c V1

  4. #4
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    I'm grabbing my wife and getting us both to safety. I have no idea who's the good guy and who's the bad guy, or if they are both bad guys.

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    That is a flight scenario. The events leading up to the shooting are unknown, the shooter is unidentified, and we don't yet know that we are the target.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

  6. #6
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Retreat to cover with spouse, most likely the engine block of my truck, and scan for accomplices while spouse calls 911. My gun would be at "low ready" with creds in other hand as I continue to observe and have spouse report.

    That's my answer, now let's see how it played out.

    Biker

    OK, I guess I passed.

    This was a very good scenario, and it should really make people think before getting involved.

    BTW: I'm a LEO.
    Last edited by BikerRN; January 22nd, 2009 at 01:06 PM. Reason: Finished Reading the Scenario

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Get the heck out of there! If I cant see the other players I have no clue what is going on.
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

  8. #8
    Distinguished Member Array C9H13NO3's Avatar
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    Given the current information, I run. The shooter is not shooting at me or my SO, so I'm not in immediate danger for my life or hers. The situation doesn't involve me. If I take the shot, what if someone else was threatening him, he was a CCW holder, and defending his own life from an attack? I can't see the other person involved, so I don't know the whole situation yet. Especially being with SO, my priority is to keep myself and her safe, not to play hero.
    -Ryan

    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

  9. #9
    Member Array Jerbear1098's Avatar
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    I can't see the whole situation so I would exit the area as fast as I can and call 911. I am not involved YET, and until he points the gun my way I am not going to be. This is a flight issue and phone in hand with 911 on it, possibly trying to describe the situation.

  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    from first paragraph:

    These scenarios are always tough. Being right next to the exit, I would probably take it and run- i.e. take the easy low risk way out. If I had been sitting eating my meal I probably would have drawn and engaged. It disturbs me that I only see the shooter and don't have a strong sense of the target/issue at play.

    edit:

    after reading your resolution it leaves me a little unsettled. There is no substitute for getting an accurate picture of the situation at hand. I think if the robbery was occurring as you laid out, one could see evidence of it.

    read this book:
    http://www.amazon.com/Blink-Power-Th.../dp/0316172324

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    I'm grabbing my wife and getting us both to safety.
    Ditto.

    My primary concern is getting me and mine to safety, period.
    If gun guy takes aim my way then well it's on.

    Agreed with others with no determination of whether the shooter I can see (there may be more...assume it so)is a GG, BG, or a CCW cowboy (!)....I am not engaging anyone to ask for a dance unless I am absolutely sure who is whom and/or my options are narrowed to shoot or die.

    The world is a strange place and thus strange things occur, strangely.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array agentmel's Avatar
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    If he's not shooting at me, I'm not shooting at him until my 9-week-old and my wife are out of the line of fire and I have more information. I'm taking cover and drawing until I know what's happening.

    While only an idiot of a(n) LEO wouldn't identify himself as such, you never know. This scenario is a classic set-up, so I'm going to wait and see.

    --------

    Yup, wait and see wins the day.

    Mel
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    How long have we watered the Tree of Deceit with the blood of patriots?

  13. #13
    Member Array FireAir7215's Avatar
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    Not a good idea to have a gunfight inside the resturant where alot of innocent people are out there.

  14. #14
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    My first priority would be to get my wife to safety. Secondly, I have no way of knowing what the situation is inside the restaurant so from behind cover, I watch as best as I can while I call 911.
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
    superior skills."

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Never let them trick you into getting engaged, then they expect you to marry them.
    It's better to run.
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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