Convenience store.

This is a discussion on Convenience store. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I would add that doing what the the OP suggested (against an unarmed man) could result in charges of assault with a deadly weapon and ...

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Thread: Convenience store.

  1. #16
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    I would add that doing what the the OP suggested (against an unarmed man) could result in charges of assault with a deadly weapon and kidnapping.

    Call 911.

    I would also question the wisdom of approaching the suspect and intertwining his fingers while covering him with a gun.

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  3. #17
    Ex Member Array itowbigtruck's Avatar
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    K6,
    First, Texas is no more a real state than the other 47 lowers. While your states gun laws are much less restrictive than the rest, (yes, we are all jealous), Once you place someone under citizens arrest, you are denying them their freedom. While you may be justified in doing so, that BG has the right to challenge that in Civil Courts. As I said earlier, Lawyers don't come cheap. (If they do, it will cost you more in the end)

    Roger

    Quote Originally Posted by Acecool View Post
    Our instructor in SC said we HAD to do something if we saw a felony in progress...
    I am not a lawyer, but I doubt you have any legal responsibility to stop a felony in progress. If you want to do that, go see your local police recruiter. CCW does not make you LEO.

    If you see someone breaking into a house that you know is unoccupied, are you required to approach the BG? After all, that is a felony. Or if you see a BG with an automatic rifle walk into a bank, are you going to approach him by yourself? You have a moral obligation to report it, but not intervine.

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acecool View Post
    Our instructor in SC said we HAD to do something if we saw a felony in progress...
    Sounds like poor advise to me, not even law enforcement HAS to try to stop someone during the commission of a felony. However they do have to investigate and make any arrests based on evidence collected.

    BKCO1, That reaction sounds a little scary, if you don't see a weapon and don't have the proper info, you maybe shooting someone who had no intent of a robbery even. Maybe a very bad joke by a friend of the cashier, who knows. Pretty quick on the draw with too little info for me, standing out of sight an watching with gun ready is more like it.
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

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  5. #19
    Distinguished Member Array sniper58's Avatar
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    Something to add to your "mental math." We had a thread here not too long ago about the newest tactic among BG's. One is in the restroom or otherwise shopping (somewhere at your 6 o'clock) while one is at the register. I'd be a good witness unless you are sure the primary BG doesn't have an armed accomplice somewhere out of view. You order #1 down and take a shot in the back of your head. Unless he produced a gun I think I'd be more inclined to be the best witness possible.
    Tim
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  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acecool View Post
    Our instructor in SC said we HAD to do something if we saw a felony in progress...
    Getting the heck out of the store is something. You go all Chuck Norris and might end up dead since lots of Convenience Store muggings are done by 2 BGs, one that was already in the store casing the place and the one doing the deed. First BG will create a new series of ballistic piercings in your body while you are target fixated on his buddy.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
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  7. #21
    VIP Member Array semperfi.45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BkCo1 View Post
    Robbery, He says "I have a gun". At first opportunity draw and fire. He is commiting a felony and threatened your life. Do not detain. Call for police and EMT.

    Semper Fi
    Whoa!

    Can you read the OP again and then confirm that's what you would do?
    Training means learning the rules. Experience means learning the exceptions.

  8. #22
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    Hands in his pocket, he may very well shot you through his pocket if he indeed does have a gun. Unless he is shooting, or herding everyone into the back-room or cooler I would ready myself, but hold fire. My hand will be on my CCW but at this point it will stay out of sight.

    Z
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  9. #23
    Member Array bigiceman's Avatar
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    I am not an LEO or abliged by my CHL to act like one. I am a fellow human being and in the face of an innocent person being threatened with imminent bodily harm in front of me I will not stand idly by and wait until the threat is carried out (watch someone killed right in front of me) before acting.

    Drawing and shooting in this situation is too unclear. Situational awareness of the rest of the store is a must, nobody behind me. Gun in hand at side of leg and challenge person. Once their attention is on me then the situation becomes more clear and I will no longer be dealing with a possible threat to someone else, it will now be me they are dealing with. Then the person's actions will determine if there needs to be an escallation. If there is a weapon my life is clearly threatened and I will respond. If they just laugh and say it is a joke, no big deal, they will never see my weapon. If they bolt because they never expected anyone to do anything but cower and comply, let them run and call the cops.

    Sometime in somebody's life on this forum they are going to get a choice of standing over a body. The body of an innocent victim they will be a great witness to the police for, or the bad guy who intended to kill someone and didn't stop or turned on them. Life is full of tough choices. I know which one I will make. I will not stand idly by and do nothing. (and yes in a life or death situation calling 911 is nothing, remember when seconds count the police are only minutes away?)There are more than enough others to do that for all of us.
    But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself...
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  10. #24
    Ex Member Array Acecool's Avatar
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    I didnt say I would shoot him, I said I would order him to the ground.. I didnt say I would draw either; but I would have at least my hand on my gun, ready to draw...

  11. #25
    Member Array bigiceman's Avatar
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    P.S.: Just in case anyone needs it spelled out. If any of you see me about to be killed or seriously injured by someone, I would appreciate some help. I don't want a good witness to help catch my killer, I want you to stop my killer from becoming a fugitive wanted for my murder. That goes for stopping my entire family from becoming casket fodder too. If there is really anyone here who feels that none of us should endager our lives to protect your loved ones please leave a notice with their description and areas they frequent so I can neglect to help them if they are ever in mortal peril. I wouldn't want to get involved where I am not wanted.
    But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself...
    "Baa."
    LTC(RET) Dave Grossman

    Revolutionary War Veterans Association Shooter Qualification: Cook

  12. #26
    Ex Member Array Acecool's Avatar
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    I would want the same consideration bigiceman, which is why I was saying I would step up..

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    This is a very tricky question. I would intervene if it was apparent that the bad guy was going to hurt or kill the clerk, like if he has a gun in his hand and is acting crazy or something. But if he is clam, I don't see a weapon, then I'm not sure I wouldn't just wait it out and let him take the money.

    I'm not the police, just a regular guy.

    Now, if my family is with me, and he is making noise about killing everyone if the clerk doesn't do what he says then all bets are off. But as others have said, I'd have to be sure that he doesn't have a buddy there watching his back.

    Really, you can't know what you would do in a situation like this until you are in a situation like this.
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  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by TN_Mike View Post
    Really, you can't know what you would do in a situation like this until you are in a situation like this.
    I agree because unless you are a good shot or up close id be worried about hitting the clerk accidentally. Id wait till he started shooting, imo

    Another thing to remember is that sometimes the clerk has a gun and you dont know if he would mistaken you as an accomplice.

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TN_Mike View Post
    ...Really, you can't know what you would do in a situation like this until you are in a situation like this.
    +1

    The situation is perhaps one of the worst to be in. Most who carry firearms for SD try to stay armed and develope habits to prepare for action. We are prepared to be agressve. We are prepared to take action.

    However this is more than a SD situation. This is a hostage situation. The best trained black belt, sharp shooting, bullet proof vest clad LE is headed into a situation where drills may not have prepared them for what happens next. In comparison, I'm a non-LE 2A practicing citizen.

    To many elements, and frankly a lot of chance. One of the reasons I don't work at or go to the corner party store during certain times of the night.
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  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by hudsonvalley View Post
    What messed up Bernie was the line..'You don't look too bad, here's another'.... I think if he should of shut up and just shot. As is, he got away with just a conviction on the illegal gun charge....he had tried applying for a legal permit but- SURPRISE -was denied....
    (wistfully) Yes, Bernie spoke for many of us as he muttered those immortal words.

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