Convenience store. - Page 3

Convenience store.

This is a discussion on Convenience store. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; have to agree with the majority of posts here. unless i'm personally threatened take your few cartons of smokes and the little bit of cash ...

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  1. #31
    VIP Member Array glock27mark's Avatar
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    have to agree with the majority of posts here. unless i'm personally threatened
    take your few cartons of smokes and the little bit of cash and let him go.
    my life is worth a heck of alot more than that.
    (SHERIFF BUFORD T. JUSTICE) "what the hell is
    the world coming too"

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  2. #32
    Distinguished Member Array Paymeister's Avatar
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    Yeah, the hard part is "self" defense: the clerk is obligated to protect himself, too. He can't on the job, of course, so his best self-defense move might be to dig ditches instead. All very well to discuss in the abstract, but what if it happens right in front of me?

    Quite frankly, I'm not financially prepared to take on the legal fight to stay out of jail even in a good shoot - my taking action EVEN IF JUSTIFIED would put my family at more risk than I can afford. I would be happy to go to jail or the poorhouse to protect my wife or daughter, or for their sake by staying alive myself (they seem to like me and if I keep my job they get to eat), but I'm not real keen on cat food for my wife and an aborted college education for my daughter while I live on pepper-loaf-and-white-bread sandwiches in the big house.

    Now - how well would I survive after such a scenario? How long would the bad dreams last? I don't know. But at this point it is SELF (and family) DEFENSE.
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  3. #33
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    In Tx we can legally come to the aid of a third party,if somebody implies they have a gun and are committing an armed robbery,then we can use deadly force to stop the threat#1 he has a gun on the person,a hand in a pocket and the words I have a gun give me all your money makes me believe he is armed,until I am in a situation like you describe I will not know how I will react,I can tell you what I might do,but every situation is a little different.What I'm not going to do is try to arrest somebody.If I have the right to draw I am in fear for my life or somebody elses and I will stop the threat
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  4. #34
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Why should I assume responsibility for the clerk's safety when he or she didn't do so prior to the incident?

    Going on the presumption that the clerk has a modest amount of reasoning ability, they must have reasoned that they were better off not carrying a firearm, for whatever reason. It is not my place to second guess them, nor correct their mistakes. They made the choice, and sometimes we all make the wrong choice, mistakes happen.

    For those of you that say, "They aren't allowed to carry by their employer," the clerk decided to stay in that job. They should've taken a job that was more agreeable to them.

    If there is one badguy, there is most likely at least two. It has been my expirience that badguys tend to travel and commit their crimes in groups. The good thing is, since there is more than one, they tend to "rat each other out" when caught.

    Until it becomes a deadly force situation directed at me and mine, when I'm off duty, I'm not making it one. On Duty I will do what agency policy allows me to do, within the law and in compliance with said agency policy.

    Here's some "light" reading:

    Commentary by Evan Marshall

    The store's money is insured. I'm not risking my life for somebody else's money, especially when I'd most likely be sued for doing so. Call me selfish you you want, but it's reality. This isn't 1950's Mayberry anymore, and Ron Howard isn't Opie.

    Biker

  5. #35
    Member Array larefugee's Avatar
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    If you come out from behind the chips yelling and waving a gun then the store owner's first reaction might mistake you for an accomplice. What if the moment that the bad guy turns to look at you the owner grabs his own gun and starts blasting both of you? Just another risk factor to take into consideration.

  6. #36
    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    A side not thought of yet is, what if the clerk is in on it? Could be an inside job, this starts a whole new game. Maybe the clerk was never in trouble at all and has a weapon too. I am all for helping my fellow man but no matter what you see and here you will never have all the facts. To jump in when you are not in danger is very dangerous.
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

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  7. #37
    VIP Member Array old grunt's Avatar
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    I would saw FIRST OF ALL: Be a GOOD OBSERVOR !! Remember as much information about him and the incident as possible. Details,details! NOW if the situation goes south and you MUST act(and that means YOUR LIFE IS IN DANGER or that of another) your training(or lack of)will decide the tactics you employ. It is easy to say.."do this or do that",but these situations happen quickly and as the expression goes.."most plans don't survive first contact".
    "We deal in lead friend">Steve McQueen The Magnificent Seven
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  8. #38
    Member Array bigiceman's Avatar
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    Be a good observer?

    Give me the supposed description you would give after watching our frienly neighborhood bad guy shoot someone dead in front of you. I bet you will remember it all of your life. You might even remember being party to an innocent person's death more than you would remember having taken the bad guy's life. Where is your humanity people? Have the lawyers gotten our society so completely cowed that we have no simpathy or mercy for others?

    The saying goes something like this; All that is nessasary for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing. Being a good observer while someone is killed in front of you is doing nothing, evil wins and another innocent person dies because you are more worried about what a lawyer will think of your actions than what is right. I don't care about the drawer full of cash or a couple cartons of cigarettes.

    I will say it again. When it is your daughter or wife or son or parents that are being victimized by someone on the street or in a store or restaurant what do you want the people around them to do in your absence? Do you want them to watch them meet whatever fate the criminal attacking them decides for them or do you want them to intervene? Not one of you would walk up to me after saving someone you love's life in a hold-up or attack and say, you know, you really should have just stood over there and took notes instead of saving their life.

    Save my loved ones people! Don't take notes or whip out your camera phone and record their murder, help.

    P.S. and if your local district attorney tries to prosecute someone who does help someone, march down to his office and raise the roof. We have taken this crap way too long. Time for the bad guys to pay for their crimes instead of the good guys paying for doing what is right.
    But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself...
    "Baa."
    LTC(RET) Dave Grossman

    Revolutionary War Veterans Association Shooter Qualification: Cook

  9. #39
    Member Array SleazyRider's Avatar
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    Good point!

    Quote Originally Posted by old grunt View Post
    I would saw FIRST OF ALL: Be a GOOD OBSERVOR !! Remember as much information about him and the incident as possible. Details,details! NOW if the situation goes south and you MUST act(and that means YOUR LIFE IS IN DANGER or that of another) your training(or lack of)will decide the tactics you employ. It is easy to say.."do this or do that",but these situations happen quickly and as the expression goes.."most plans don't survive first contact".
    Your point is very well taken, Old Grunt, and I applaud you for bringing it up. I oftentimes wonder if I---or any of us, for that matter---will possess the PRESENCE OF MIND to act swiftly and competently enough to bring the event to a satisfactory conclusion. And you're right: it is a product of one's TRAINING. Speaking only for myself and myself alone, at present I do not have enough confidence in my informal "training," so I plan to seek formal training this summer. This, of course, has little to do with marksmanship on the firing range; I am talking about defensive training.

    According to Sulley, it was the TRAINING of both himself and his crew that was responsible for saving the lives of 150 passengers as he successfully landed his Airbus in the Hudson River. But even a mediocre pilot can "talk" a good landing; he had the PRESENCE OF MIND to pull it off. How does one acquire presence of mind?

    Answer: Effective TRAINING!

  10. #40
    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
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    Bigice...utopia thoughts. One might win the battle...but put at risk their family and themselves...and lose the war. I can guarantee that very few will come to your aid while you deal with the aftermath. I am also curious your age...I suspect those either new to CC and/or young have a view to dive right in...save the world view. To much X box. As previously stated, too many unknowns.

    So, if it happens on your watch...best wishes and good luck. I hope that whatever your decision, I hope you can live with it.

    Rick

  11. #41
    VIP Member Array old grunt's Avatar
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    BigIce..refer to PART TWO..If it goes south. Nobody including myself would stand by ARMED AND WATCH an execution. BUT as a retired LEO(and now just an armed citizen like you), if it "ONLY" stays at the robbery level your observation skills will do more than pulling out the roscoe. Off-duty cops ARE TOLD TO PICK UP A PHONE BEFORE A PISTOL IF IT'S NOT A LIFE-THREATENING SITUATION!!

    Hey sleazy..THANKS !! Like the avatar!!
    "We deal in lead friend">Steve McQueen The Magnificent Seven
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  12. #42
    Member Array SleazyRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old grunt View Post
    Hey sleazy..THANKS !! Like the avatar!!
    Hey, you're welcome. And if you'd be kind enough to indulge me, what is the origin or meaning of the expression you used, i.e., "pulling out the roscoe," in your post? I've never heard that one!

    Inquiring minds want to know!

  13. #43
    VIP Member Array old grunt's Avatar
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    Back at you New York!!

    Sleazy...Remember the old detective movies from '40's and '50's ?? "Gats", "roscoes" and "heaters".................all slang for guns !! All I need is a fedora and a couple of dames!! As a side note...I confess I call women 'broads" all the time. If it was good enough for Francis Albert(Sinatra)it's good enough for me !!!
    "We deal in lead friend">Steve McQueen The Magnificent Seven
    82d Abn(1983-86)OIF 2007-08
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    Retired NYS LEO / NRA Life Member
    Still Love Ya Sarah !
    "no kidding,gun slinging,spurs hitting the floor"

  14. #44
    Member Array SleazyRider's Avatar
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    Just the facts, ma'am!

    Quote Originally Posted by old grunt View Post
    Sleazy...Remember the old detective movies from '40's and '50's ?? "Gats", "roscoes" and "heaters".................all slang for guns !! All I need is a fedora and a couple of dames!! As a side note...I confess I call women 'broads" all the time. If it was good enough for Francis Albert(Sinatra)it's good enough for me !!!

    Ah-ha! Herein lies the problem: That's before my time! (Not much before, mind you) Dragnet is about as far back as I go, coming into this world 55 years ago. But next time I'm hanging out with my shooting buddies, you can be sure that I'll be dropping the "R" word with reckless abandon.

  15. #45
    Member Array 1899's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigiceman View Post
    Be a good observer?


    Save my loved ones people! Don't take notes or whip out your camera phone and record their murder, help.
    What you fail to realize is that saving someone with a deadly weapon in a situation like this is easier said than done. How do you know you will not end up in a hostage standoff? does the bg know you are in the store? Does the clerk have a gun? are you in cross fire? Are you sure under pressure you can shoot and not miss, how far away are you from the bg? Im pretty sure you will get raked over the coals if you hit an innocent bystander. Imean if you have a clear shot, fine but dont assume everyone should take the risk of being a hero.

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