Have you ever drawn your gun in defense and not fired it?

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Originally Posted by SSgt USMC

I'm a newcomer here, a nobody if you will...but I have read that paragraph several times over and over throughout the day and it keeps me coming back....

First and foremost, I sincerely feel for you and your experience and glad you made it. You survived which is the main and most important thing.

Every situation dependent on the circumstances will have a different outcome on these factors. I do not carry yet as a citizen, but I have had to pull and use them in combat as a Marine.

It is not "cowardice" that prevents many of us from pulling the trigger...it is discipline and awareness of our surroundings.

Sometimes you simply dont' have the reaction time to react to a threat, or in doing so placing yourself in a more dangerous outcome and or more innocents present.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm reading a lot of hostility from your statements...that's dangerous for both you and those around you...a John Wayne effect perhaps.

I know intimately the rules of engagement and the implications of deadly force, I have used them to protect myself and my friends in harm's way....I do not revel in this knowing I killed another human, I simply didn't have a viable alternative.

We have a supreme responsibility as gun-owners abiding by our laws and statutes and the possibility we may in fact have to use them in the future.

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I don't believe my responding was meant to be hostile by any means at all.

I believe it was a valid question...

Did you not pull the trigger because of training?

Did you not pull the trigger because of fear?

what is hostile about these two questions?

I for one might have pulled the trigger in the situations these folks have been in.

I just hope I'm never in a position where i make the wrong decision.

I don't recall who it was, but someone here stated that a LEO asked them why they didn't pull the trigger?

That is why the question came to mind.

I do apologies if I sounded Hostile.

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Originally Posted by mlr1m

I have no formal training other than handling firearms since gradeschool. I did not pull the trigger because after pulling it the threat went away.

This may sound strange but while it was happening I was very clear headed about what needed to be done. I was seeing everything around me clearly. The actual fear didn't really set in until after it was over.

Michael

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This was the type of answer i was looking for...

Thank you!

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Originally Posted by 64zebra

training.....I know others will agree here too....but its often said that you fight how your train....the times I've been in situations as a LEO and have to to action in various ways things just happen, I go on instinct and don't have to think about getting a hold of someone a certain way, drawing weapon, etc; the times I've had someone at gunpoint the finger is indexed without thinking, I'm watching and evaluating the suspect's actions to go from there; adrenaline kicks in and you will revert to habit=training
me and a buddy caught a burglar in the act 3 nights ago and BG almost got shot because he didn't comply with directions and kept coming at my partner, he went from index to putting finger on trigger when the guy decided to follow directions and hit the deck
All the times I've drawn on people on duty it feels natural (best way I can describe it), its all automatic-drawing, indexing, aiming, muzzle awareness, sul position/transition room to room, reholstering
best way I can explain it

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This is very insightful, being in control when the adrenalin kicks in.

Your comment has shine some light on some other questions I had.

Thank you.

I don't care who you are, or how much of a tough guy you think you are, whenever you have to consciously unholster a handgun or a shoulder fired weapon in either offense or defense, you are scared...the adreneline rush is staggering...you are never more "alive" and aware of what's going on around you...time stands still.

The difference between law-abiding citizens carrying either concealed or open is this, in my opinion. Most criminals are basically bullies and thugs who like to dominate their victims and have control issues. When they are confronted by a civilian who is also armed and ready to defend themselves, their homes, or those they love the game changes dramatically.

Lets put it this way...I'm not a tough guy, I'm not a he-man, but if a person is standing in front of me wishing to do me, my home, or my wife and child harm, I will do whatever I have to do within the law to defend them and they had better hope to God that their conviction is greater than mine in their cause. The one benefit and possible advantage over a criminal I have is a LOT of weapons training and handling, and a lot of special schools we attend throughout our career's.

27 years as a federal LEO; fired upon by counterfeiter near Chardon, Ohio; he
missed me, I hit him in the shoulder with a .357 Super X flat nosed semi-wadcutter. One other time in Cleveland Hopkins airport hotel room;
counterfeit money delivery; bad guy fired a shot at me & I returned fire; missed
him, but scared him badly; arrest uneventful after that. Not fun being in such a
situation, and I've messed up my high frequency hearing from that hotel room
experience.

The easiest answer I can give is I don't carry to kill I carry not to be killed.

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Originally Posted by TRICKORMATE

This is very insightful, being in control when the adrenalin kicks in.

Your comment has shine some light on some other questions I had.

Thank you.

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you're welcome, just my $0.02
I can speak from experience.....training is invaluable
combat breathing
force on force training
simunitions training
practice hands-on/grappling/takedowns/control holds
and of course weapons handling/firing

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Originally Posted by Guido Capizi

27 years as a federal LEO; fired upon by counterfeiter near Chardon, Ohio; he
missed me, I hit him in the shoulder with a .357 Super X flat nosed semi-wadcutter. One other time in Cleveland Hopkins airport hotel room;
counterfeit money delivery; bad guy fired a shot at me & I returned fire; missed
him, but scared him badly; arrest uneventful after that. Not fun being in such a
situation, and I've messed up my high frequency hearing from that hotel room
experience.

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When I was shot point blank in the face i heard the gun shot, thank God it didn't affect my hearing.

I've wondered of LEO's that have had to shoot a BG if after all the shot's they have fired if the bang has messed up their hearing.

Originally Posted by TRICKORMATE View Post
Those of you that have ran into these situations, do you believe you did't pull the trigger due to training? or because you were scared too?

Come on let's be honest.

I think if i were in some of the situations you guys have been in, I would have probably pulled the trigger..

Just read my story and you will know why.

I refuse to be a victim again.


Despite my training. I think that the same would be true of most if not all ex-military. We're not trained to think about the law, is the threat over...etc. If the other guy is alive, he's a threat,period. In my incident where I chased the guy that tried to get in my house, it wasn't until I was fully awake that I snapped out of the soldier mode and realized that I couldn't just shoot the guy.
LEO's and civilians are trained differently.

I have only drawn a gun once on another human life.

To be brief,

Three years ago I caught a guy trying to break into my car in a Wal-Mart parking lot, and I confronted the guy and asked him what he was doing (only in a more vulgar manner), and he didn't say anything to me, he just turned around and pulled out a huge bowie knife. He started to come at me, and I side stepped and felt my little snub nose 357 in my pocket, and I pulled it out and leveled the muzzle with his face. His eyes grew as big as pancakes, he turned around again, and stumbled off into the night. I never reported it to the police, because one, after it all went down, I was too scared and stalled my car 5 times on the way home because I was shaking so bad, and two I didn't have a cell phone at the time. I didn't stick around to look for witnesses, I had got in my car and sped out of there.

Now I carry a cell phone at all times

No, just pushed my jacket back and griped it readying to pull, and he started backing down the street.

Yes in Short. After I got him to calm down and I could retreat into the house 2 seconds later the police arrived and took him to jail.

Yes, a few times

Reading these posts brought back an incident that happened to me about 30 years ago. My wife and I had just bought some raw land in the outback of LA (that’s Lower Alabama). We went out one day to try and clear a driveway into the land. I parked our car on the paved road right of way and left the trunk and doors open. We also had our first 3 babies with us. Anyway, we had been working for a while when I noticed a car load (3 or 4) of scum bags drive by slowly with all eyes on our car. They caught my attention and I did not think they saw me. I slipped out to the edge of the road and found that they had pulled into a dirt road about 50 yards down the road and were very intently looking back at the car. They looked like mongrel dogs with their tongues hanging out. I moved out to my car and retrieved my .38 from under the front seat and then went back in the woods where I could watch them. About 30 seconds later, one of them must have had a brain dump and had the first intelligent though in his life, they backed out of the drive way and went on down the road and I never saw them again.

I do not know if they figured out that I had retrieved a weapon from the car or if it was just the fact that their was someone around that sent them on their way but I was glad they did.

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Originally Posted by Thumper

On a nice summer afternoon a stranger opened my front screen door (now replaced with a steel security door) and stepped in to my living room. I drew my weapon to the ready and ordered him to "GET OUT OF MY HOUSE!" He backed out immediately. I then called the Police... so did he. What a moron! :mad:

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That is another reason to call the cops after such an encounter. If the BG calls and you don't you may find yourself in trouble.

Not in 2 yrs of CC but I needed a gun in the NYC Subway once: a homeless psycho tried to throw/push me onto the tracks. Ended up fighting him while 2 dozen by-standers watched & offered no assistance.

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Originally Posted by gaowlpoop

. . . with all eyes on our car.. . . . They looked like mongrel dogs with their tongues hanging out.

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Bizarre, but I've seen that exact thing in Wendover Utah while driving down the main street. People staring at you like they were wild dingos and you were dinner. . . That was the town where several guys tried kicking in the door to our motel room. . . Until they met Mr. Glock 19 and our 80 lb Labrador. . . Then they looked like road runners, heading away ad fast as their feet could carry them.

Similar thing happened in Seattle 11 years ago. Out on the street when a pack of thugs decided that we looked like good targets for a robbery. Never had to pull the gun. By time my hand was on the grip, they were doing a disappearing act that even Houdin would have appreciated!