How many would try to disarm an armed scumbag while unarmed yourself?

This is a discussion on How many would try to disarm an armed scumbag while unarmed yourself? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Either while unarmed or perhaps your weapon is holstered and concealed (Perhaps not very quick to get to)? So here the deal: A friend of ...

View Poll Results: You you attempt to disarm an attacker, while unarmed?

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  • Yes

    23 12.64%
  • No

    31 17.03%
  • Depends

    128 70.33%
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Thread: How many would try to disarm an armed scumbag while unarmed yourself?

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    How many would try to disarm an armed scumbag while unarmed yourself?

    Either while unarmed or perhaps your weapon is holstered and concealed (Perhaps not very quick to get to)?

    So here the deal: A friend of mine asked me to practice some disarming maneuvers with him and after a few sessions we are getting fairly proficient. I was skeptical at first, as I've always figured that if a gun was presented to me and I couldn't draw mine quickly enough or didn't have one that they'd get my wallet and I'd hope that they felt like letting me live.

    Anyhow, after some practice we are fairly consistently able to disarm one another before a shot can be taken. (it'd have to be amazingly consistently before I actually thought about using the techniques) In fact, we can disarm one another and have the "BG's gun faster than either of us can draw and fire our own from cover. Of course, for any action the BG must be close enough to be handed my wallet and be acting alone). I also assume that most of us have to no hand 2 hand training and would not try getting physical, chime in anyway, but I'd really love to hear from those with training.

    Given though, that on the street there are NO do-overs and rather than a paint pellet if we fail we get dead, I'm not sure yet that I could muster the guts to go hands against firearm. I am also very uncomfortable with my survival being dependent on the BG allowing it or not, at his whim.

    How many of you would: ( forgot to click to make a poll. Oh well.)


    1. Give up the wallet every time and hope the BG is feeling kind?

    2. Depends on the BG's demeanor and your own spidey sense?

    3. Would go hands against firearm more often than not?
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  3. #2
    Distinguished Member Array C9H13NO3's Avatar
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    Give up the wallet and shoot BG when he's picking it up. That's only if he has enough of a drop on me that I wouldn't have time to draw and shoot. Also, I don't care about anyone's moral convictions about defending personal property. If it's legal where I live, I'm going to defend it.

    I have some hand to hand training but it's more geared toward someone whose sole purpose is to kill you, and you have no choice but unarmed defense. I think a general "getting robbed" situation, their purpose is to obtain your money or belongings, which means you can still fight dirty (do what you have to), to win. You also don't know how much firearms retention training BG has. An unarmed attempt to disarm is pretty dangerous. I wouldn't try it unless there was literally no other option.
    -Ryan

    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

  4. #3
    Senior Member Array elkhunter's Avatar
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    Were you able to practice these disarming maneuvers while your friend was cranked up on PCP, or Meth, or something like that?

    That is the problem I am having with your question right now.
    Not that the question is invalid, but that in your practice, and being consistent is with someone as "sane" as your friend, are you able to train to operate to the degree of overwhelming force as you will need?

    In my searching for a response here, I realize that I have not considered what to do if I am unarmed. So that alone has given me pause to consider more seriously, you question in a broader sense.

    I am looking forward to responses from the more qualified people here.
    It’s so much easier now days, to "Love and honor" my wife, when she is armed, and shoots a better group than I do. (Till death do us part, eh?)

    “The way you get shot by a concealed weapons permit holder is, you point a gun at him,” the Sheriff said.

  5. #4
    Ex Member Array JOHNSMITH's Avatar
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    Keep in mind that the perp often has his finger on the trigger, and is generally experiencing an adrenaline surge, and maybe even hopped up on the some hard drug. Also keep in mind that while he would not hesitate to kill you, even after he gets your wallet, he doesn't want to die himself. So he has a fear for his life as well. A combination of all these factors makes a man harder to safely disarm.

    To correctly try to simulate disarmament, you have to be against someone like that.

  6. #5
    Distinguished Member Array C9H13NO3's Avatar
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    I think I kinda forgot the "if you are unarmed" part. I'm never really unarmed, so it never crossed my mind. I'm I'm in a gun free zone (except that of the BG's), I'd probably try to disarm if I thought it possible. Definitely depends on the situation. If BG is up close, not showing good weapon discipline, and is in a position where I can get proper leverage on his firearm, I'd probably try it, along with a swift knee to the groin. Cranked out or not, a good groin hit is going to temporarily disable them, at least to where I can gain control of their firearm, or make some followup strikes.
    -Ryan

    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    I do realize that it's terribly difficult to simulate a genuine gang-banger or junkee. (That is actually a major problem I have with most "experts" that teach gunfighting, Most have been in few or no actual gunfights). Of course, not all techniques nor all people attempting them are created equal. In any case, it's a gamble. The biggest part of me wants to stick with some method of drawing and firing my own weapon when I have it, but the math from practice so far favors the disarming techniques ans being more successful. That is we both get shot way more when trying to draw our own weapons than when going for disarming.
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  8. #7
    VIP Member Array AZ Husker's Avatar
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    Most of those scumbags grew up on the street, and are quite proficient in street brawling themselves. They have practiced it their whole lives.
    Treat me good, I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, I'll treat you worse.

  9. #8
    Member Array budokaitd's Avatar
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    As a last resort only. The gun has to be at least close enough to redirect it or you are pretty screwed. Dropping the wallet is a good distraction, then pucker up and hope your traininig pays off. I've done quite a bit of live grappling with training weapons and it's not easy, beginner or advanced. Certainly not some mystical/magical solution to a life or death situation. For me, it's always been lots of hard work and repetition until you are blue in the face. When you go for it, go all out and know what you are doing or give up the money and hope you don't get shot.
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  10. #9
    VIP Member Array HKinNY's Avatar
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    I can not comment on other styles of self defensive. Keep in mind that I have taken only 2 Krav Maga classes and H2H in a Bail Enforcement class. But the basic on KM is to disarm a knife to the body, gun to the body. Believe me if I can run like a little school girl I am heading for the hills. But if I am in for the fight I am going to fight to kill the SOB even if I have to bite thru his jugular. I to was taught in the class how to disarm and even though it seem simple wouldn't want to try it unless I had to.

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array AZ Husker's Avatar
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    You've let him get WAY too close by the time you need to disarm him.
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  12. #11
    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    Did a Gabe Suarez class on that very thing last summer, N it is amazing just how easy it is to disarm someone close and turn their weapon against them!
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

  13. #12
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    I've added a poll for you. The answers are simple, but basically what you were asking I believe.
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  14. #13
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    I voted it depends. I would hope that no one would get that close to me, but in a metroplex with over 5 million people, times can get to where you have a lot of people around you.

    If the BG is close enough and I can't get to my own gun, then I would probably rely on muscle memory of taking things away from people that I learned growing up in a rough area. I have also practiced in disarming people and I would never want to use that, I prefer a much more hands off approach, but if there is nothing else I can do then I'll have to do what I can. Time and time again it has been proven that compliance doesn't equal safety.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

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  15. #14
    njr
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    It would depend. I like the wallet chucking as a distraction. At the same time, you probably don't want to make sudden movements that could startle the gunman as sympathetic reflex could cause him to jerk on the trigger.

    One thing they taught in my Krav class back when I first took it is that if you run, even if they shoot, most people subconsciously don't want to kill people, so even if they do hit, chances are good that he won't aim for the thoracic? triangle and you'll survive, at least the first couple of shots.

    They do teach disarm in KM at level three or so and there are various techniques in _Complete Krav Maga_. Don't know how well they work.

    They also teach disarms in Systema and there is apparently a Russian Spesnas in my area who focuses on this and is apparently quite good at it.

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott View Post
    I've added a poll for you. The answers are simple, but basically what you were asking I believe.
    Good enuf for me, thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Husker View Post
    You've let him get WAY too close by the time you need to disarm him.
    Ideally you are right, but NOONE can be on game 100%. Also, in a crowded city I can hardly avoid people (as Paco mentioned) and even President Reagan got shot with a whole slew of protection whose full-time job it is to maintain situational awareness. Stuff Happens FAST!
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