too close?

This is a discussion on too close? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; ok scene is my sons baseball game. young lady approx 12-13 came over to play with my youngest son all is well. she got up ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 24

Thread: too close?

  1. #1
    Member Array magdaddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    maine
    Posts
    31

    too close?

    ok scene is my sons baseball game. young lady approx 12-13 came over to play with my youngest son all is well. she got up grabbed my drink off the ground and shook it like crazy. i said something to the point that maybe her dad ought to have spanked her more and tought her some manners. 15 minutes later her father ( trashy looking fella with a stained redsox jersey open and half his chest hair hangin out) approched me yellin at me for makin his daughter cry. his hands were clenched into fists and was about 15 feet away and still approching slowly. at what point is close enough? do i have basis for self defense if the reason he was pissed was my own actions?
    either fight or flight and i aint got no damn wings!

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    Distinguished Member Array C9H13NO3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,513
    Within 21 feet is definitely too close according to most people I think.

    If he throws the first punch, you have every right to defend yourself. Granted, in this situation it looks like had it erruped, you'd be defending yourself with fists...one more reason to learn unarmed combat.
    -Ryan

    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

  4. #3
    Member Array DonSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    28
    Hate to agree, but yes , an excellent opportunity for verbal judo and open hand techniques if it comes to it.

  5. #4
    VIP Member
    Array archer51's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    21,137
    Once he is within 21 feet, tell him in a loud clear voice, so others in the area can hear as well, to "back off and stay away from you, you don't want any trouble". If he continues toward you, have wife call 911 and gather your family and keep yourself between them and the aggressor. Unless there is a huge disparity of force, or a weapon is produced, I would say you would only be able to legally use physical force to protect yourself. If he forces it, end it quickly, remember, there is no such thing as a fair fight. There is no such thing as fighting dirty. Hit him or kick him wherever necessary to stop his aggressiveness.

  6. #5
    Member Array magdaddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    maine
    Posts
    31
    ya did mot have my permit to carry at that time. hes around 150 160 lbs 5'10 or so im 5 10 also but slightly heavier at 280lbs would have been a mismatch. would it made a diffrence had he reached in to his pocket?
    either fight or flight and i aint got no damn wings!

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    25,992
    Quote Originally Posted by magdaddy View Post
    ya did mot have my permit to carry at that time. hes around 150 160 lbs 5'10 or so im 5 10 also but slightly heavier at 280lbs would have been a mismatch. would it made a diffrence had he reached in to his pocket?
    Depends on the "reasonable man" standard, generally.

    If someone I didn't know was approaching with clear physical signs of anger and it was directed at me, backed up by specific verbal threads which, combined with the distance and continuing to close the distance created an immediate danger to my person, and I believed I was at immediate risk of harm, I would absolutely defend myself. It would depend on circumstances ... the nature of the agitation, how quickly he was moving, how large/strong he appeared, the specifics of what he was saying, whether he appeared armed or likely to be armed. But then, my state's laws don't demand I first become a pig on a spit, before defending myself, unlike some places. It's up to me, though I'll essentially be judged by the reasonable man standards.

    What do the statutes say in your state, about person crimes and when certain levels of force are legally allowable?
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Franklin, VA
    Posts
    5,122
    Pepper gas would take the fight out of him. Add tool to the box.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  9. #8
    Senior Member Array BamaSteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Birmingham, Alabama
    Posts
    669
    here in Alabama, even if you start something with someone. If you make it clear to the other person that you want to be done with the situation and they continue to be hostile, then it is self-defense. Although this isn't really even the issue, just some food for thought
    Smith & Wesson M&P9cCrossbreed Supertuck
    Ruger LCP
    Nitecore EX10 R2
    SOG Access Card 2.0

  10. #9
    Distinguished Member Array Paymeister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    1,540
    ...and if you're old enough or in bad enough physical shape, using a cane is a good way to have a 3' longer reach. That or OC spray would sure beat having nothing on you in a schoolground.

    (You didn't say schoolground, but that's where most games are played around here.)
    Recently updated website: http://www.damagedphotorepair.com

  11. #10
    tjm
    tjm is offline
    Member Array tjm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    44
    That's a tough one in every aspect. I second the (never ending) learning and practicing of unarmed combat. Ya try to avoid these things but 15 feet with fists clinched, I'd have to say it looks like somebody's not going straight home tonight. I would let him throw the first punch, then we go at it. No way can I see this as a lethal force situation. You'd be crucified in a courtroom. That's not legal advice by any means and YMMV, just my 2 cents.

    What did you do?

  12. #11
    Ex Member Array itowbigtruck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Florissant (St Louis area) MO
    Posts
    100
    I agree with most, hand to hand would definitely be a good option. Prroblem with OC in this situation, if you are in the stands watching a game, you are going to get bystanders as well. Definately not a lethal force issue, imo

    just my $.02

  13. #12
    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    1,681
    Since it was a redsox jersey...I would of said..."you a sox fan...me too":)).

    This 21 feet always bothers me...people are going to get within 21 feet. Just not possible to keep everybody 21 feet away. And whipping out your firearm sure would made a huge stampede in the stands.

    Where some H2H training does come in handy...and to think faster on one's feet. Exiting from a scene (with all the tertos and ego flowing)...is the hardest thing to do.

    Rick

  14. #13
    Member Array Leopard125's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    New Mexico USA
    Posts
    204
    What is the opinion if you are CC (avoid or H2H),
    not sure if I want to be involved in a scuffle while CC.

  15. #14
    Senior Member Array Rotorblade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    SurfCity
    Posts
    541
    I coached youth sports for almost ten years and can tell you from experience that carrying a concealed weapon in that environment is almost as bad as carrying a weapon in to a bar for a night of drinking.
    I've seen normal decent calm parents turn into raving, screaming, violence prone idiots in a heartbeat. I know your situation was a little different as it was sort of away from the game but,.... like a bar room situation, even if you're not the agressor, a disagreement that would normally end up with a someone getting a bloody nose and a crushed ego could easily end up with someone getting killed.
    These are kind of touchy situations because if it's perceived that you kind of started the fight and then went for your weapon only after you started to lose it would be difficult to claim self defense.

    I know I'm rambling here and have made way more out of the original post then was intended.....I will just shut up and go back to reading my Sunday paper!!!!! Maybe I should switch to decaf.....

  16. #15
    Lead Moderator
    Array rocky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    15,844
    Unless your life or families lives were in danger , are you justified in shooting? How would this look to a jury , if you were to fire?
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. My son had a close one
    By MoResident in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: November 2nd, 2009, 12:04 PM
  2. Too close to me
    By JoJoGunn in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: June 6th, 2009, 09:46 AM
  3. How Close is too Close?
    By DCJS Instructor in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: February 18th, 2008, 12:36 PM
  4. Well, that's *close*....
    By Paymeister in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: January 31st, 2008, 01:40 PM
  5. So close....
    By Squawker in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: October 31st, 2006, 09:54 AM