You can tell their gun won't fire - Page 2

You can tell their gun won't fire

This is a discussion on You can tell their gun won't fire within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by archer51 BG has a gun pulled on you, I'm guessing the last thing your going to notice is if the loaded chamber ...

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  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Pikachu711's Avatar
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    A Loaded Chamber?

    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    BG has a gun pulled on you, I'm guessing the last thing your going to notice is if the loaded chamber indicator is visible, or the safety is engaged, especially if it is not a broad daylight situation. Until I decide he is not going to leave it as a simple robbery I'll do as he says. If I decide that whether I obey or not he's going to shoot anyway, I'll do whatever I can to make him miss with his first shot and pray mine hits it's target.
    As much as I would like to think I'd notice if the chamber were loaded or not I doubt that's what I'd be seeing at that moment. All I'd see is that it's "a gun"!

    As someone who's been robbed at gunpoint while I used to work as a desk clerk four times it's hard to really tell if the round is chambered or not. All I saw each time that it was "A GUN". The only thing I was thinking was getting this bad guy out of my my lobby! Each time he took all the cash in my drawer. Once he was gone I called the cops!


  2. #17
    Member Array trapper T's Avatar
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    People watch too much TV. You are carrying a gun for one reason, SELF DEFENSE!!! Somebody pulls a weapon on you (gun, knife,bat,what ever) KILL THEM!!! Maybe I am crazy, but that is the reason I carry. My life or Their life, no brainer.

  3. #18
    Member Array MRPOWER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trapper T View Post
    People watch too much TV. You are carrying a gun for one reason, SELF DEFENSE!!! Somebody pulls a weapon on you (gun, knife,bat,what ever) KILL THEM!!! Maybe I am crazy, but that is the reason I carry. My life or Their life, no brainer.
    Stop them is the more appropriate response. if they happen to die in the process of you doing so then so be it. I would draw and shoot in a situation like this. i'm not saying i would notice something like this but you never know what your tunnel vision will lock in on. If all you can see is the gun in your face you very well may notice every nick, scratch, and groove on that weapon. all in all if someone threatens me with a gun or any other weapon they are letting me know that they are willing and able to take my life to get what they want, whether they are smart enough to actually present a fully functional weapon is irrelevant. My little observation could also be incorrect and could just be something to give the extra boost in confidence to act swiftly and hopefully out shoot the BG
    when I leave this Earth, It's gonna be on both feet; NEVER KNEES IN THE DIRT

  4. #19
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    BG has gun, BG is threat, I'll get away if I can, otherwise, I'll ensure my survival. I would not take the time to examine the weapon in great detail. To hesitate is to die.

  5. #20
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    By the time it registers in my brain that the BGs gun isn't loaded... I hope to have already delivered a controlled pair to COM!

    You see the threat, you end the threat! I hope in that moment of imminent threat to your life you're not wasting valuable seconds, seconds that may make the difference between life and death, evaluating the condition of the shooter's weapon!

    He already has the jump on you!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
    superior skills."

  6. #21
    Senior Member Array community's Avatar
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    BG points gun at you. Shoot him.

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    If he has the drop on me and I can honestly tell his gun isn't cocked and ready to rock, I'm gonna kick him square in the nuts as I draw and fire.

    Then I'm gonna get a drink to calm my nerves, after the Cops leave that is.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

    -Paco
    http://www.shieldsd.net

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    This happens pretty often, BG drawing down with a firearm that is; unloaded, not charged (hammer down on a 1911 or other SA type handgun), safety activated, or hammer is back though an an empty chamber be it revolver or semi-auto.
    Reports of this come up in the news with regularity toward LEOs, civilians, and BG vs BG too.

    I do know for a fact I would notice if the safety was activated or if the hammer was down on a 1911. I notice this in movies and TV all the time without even trying to find it. Reason being because I know the 1911 very well as that is all I own and have been training with for 7+ yrs. now.
    With a revolver I'm pretty sure I would also note whether the chamber is loaded or not just by looking down the barrel. Street guns used by BGs tend to be short barreled, unlike as commonly portrayed in movies and on TV shows. In fact I did do/notice just this the one time I was mugged in an alley way and the BG held a revolver level at my right eye. I had a perfect view of a FMJ bullet.

    Knowing myself I believe I would react same as HotGuns, only with some slight modification.
    I train at this type of scenario often (weekly) with dry fire because in my world for me it is the item most statistically probable to occur to me as a victim be it on the streets or at/in my home.

    If the BG is within arms reach of me, I will close distance _toward_ him.
    There is no good tactical reason to attempt running from him or to keep him at distance. I would bring myself to within his personal space and be one among him, so as to with my weak hand grasp his weapon and tear (!) it away _or_ to grasp his wrist or forearm and with a strong stiff arm stroke push his hand and arm down and to his inside which for most average persons is an area of physical weakness due to weak development of the posterior deltoid muscle. It's far easier for an average person to pull their arm inward against resistance than it is to pull the arm outward against resistance.
    As I using my own body weight push his arm down and inward just enough to get the bore of the gun off of my body, which is all that I need...and I don't care if he is able to pull the trigger and make his gun go bang, I then draw with my strong hand and either zipper him in the gut up the chest as I stay in direct contact with him holding his wrist/arm. Or I draw my pocket knife and I very quickly with multiple straight inward strokes perforate his stomach, chest, and/or strike direct into the trachea or up under the chin above the Adams apple. He will stop.

    If the BG is outside my arms reach, then I follow my training.
    I note if he is left or right handed. Which ever hand is his strong hand I leap (not slide..not run...not side step) to the same lateral direction as is his strong hand. If he's right handed as are some 90+ % of people then I get off the X and I leap to his right, which is my left. If I cam not physically able to leap then I do my damned best to with quickness swiftly move myself by what ever means to that direction. Same if BG is left handed, I move lateral to his left which is my right.
    As I am moving on the lateral he will sense my movement but have trouble in precisely placing hand to match his eye as again thanks to general human physiology as it it far tougher (and in this case slower) to move the arm outward as it is inward.
    While I am in movement I will also be drawing from concealment and quite possibly choosing to go into a crouch too if possible. None of these reactions will be expected by the BG. I am now inside his action/reaction loop and he is at this point reacting to me rather than vice versa.

    The second to last thing he sees or hears of me are sudden flashes of light and noise that sounds like firecrackers.
    I am targeting preferably his upper chest but may choose and will take the sternum, diaphragm/upper gut, or even if it's stable the head/face as a target. He will continue to see and hear these odd unexpected flashes of light and sound until either he goes down like Frazier or I hit slide lock, and pause for a second to drop the mag and reload.

    Bang bang bang...bang

    - Janq

    P.S. _ I have already and long long ago come to grips in my own mind with being shot. I have been stabbed in a street fight. It hurts, but not at first in the immediate. Every one I know who has been shot reports same similar. Some didn't even know they were shot at first and felt nothing.
    I've accepted that if attacked it's a good chance I'll be shot. I also have accepted and know by fact that if I am shot I may still have ability for seconds if not minutes to stay in the fight and that I should keep fighting. Do not stop until I can physically no longer continue. If it hurts okay, accept that. Fight. Get mad. Apply fear and worry to fuel rage, and by that keep on fighting...to survive, or to take one or another mother with me to the dirt.
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  9. #24
    Member Array dtweeks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Bang,Bang...

    Bang
    I like the 'pause' for accuracy on the third one...

  10. #25
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    If trained and practiced enough I can see this as a feasible method of removal of the firearm.

    YouTube - Essentials of Krav Maga Self Defense Techniques : Front Gun Attack : Krav Maga
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

    -Paco
    http://www.shieldsd.net

  11. #26
    Member Array Once Bitten's Avatar
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    Great post Janq!!!!

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Bang,Bang...

    Bang
    And Ba-Bang Ba-bang! for good measure. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting five or six or seven times.

  13. #28
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    You can tell their gun won't fire

    If there was a way to be sure, I'd be gone if possable.

  14. #29
    Senior Member Array Cthulhu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paco View Post
    If trained and practiced enough I can see this as a feasible method of removal of the firearm.

    YouTube - Essentials of Krav Maga Self Defense Techniques : Front Gun Attack : Krav Maga
    Seen that clip and I can't buy it. The guy stating that putting your hands up is "the last thing you ever want to do" is particularly idiotic, especially when his scenario is based on the bad guy actually demanding you do so. Furthermore, it's quicker to lower your hands to initiate some defensive motion than to raise them. Utter crap.

    I have know way of knowing if I'd be able to notice a fine detail like a loaded chamber indicator when the muzzle of the gun would likely be commanding most of the attention. Not sure if I'd risk my life on a "maybe".

    However, I have read of an account (perhaps on this site) where a bad guy took a shop owner's H&K P7 and tried to shoot him with it, only to find that he didn't know how to operate the gun. This gave the owner time to draw his BUG and ventilate the bad guy. In this instance, at least for the moment, the good guy knew the gun wouldn't function, because the bad guy was a goof and couldn't work the P7.

    -JT

  15. #30
    Member Array Logan5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    If he pulls the trigger and his gun fires you very likely will not get to pull your trigger
    True if it was a chambered round, but going with the hypothetical given with a UN chambered gun – I would have a good chance of using my gun.

    Just a thought…
    Should anyone brandishing weapon always be fire upon?

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