You can tell their gun won't fire

This is a discussion on You can tell their gun won't fire within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by bigiceman I am reading a book right now that references pictures from concentration camps and the Warsaw ghetto where the German soldiers ...

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Thread: You can tell their gun won't fire

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigiceman View Post
    I am reading a book right now that references pictures from concentration camps and the Warsaw ghetto where the German soldiers that are terrorizing the Jews have weapons that are not chambered. The numerically superior victims could have turned on their captors with relative ease if they had only known. How would you use that information in a pinch?
    What is telling you the weapons aren't hot?

    If the bolt is retracted on a Gen II SMG, it is indeed ready to fire...

    ...just on observational check.

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  3. #47
    Member Array billfromtx's Avatar
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    If he is attempting to shoot me.... I would shoot him first! :)
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    "It's all about shot placement."- David (Slayer of Goliath)

  4. #48
    Senior Member Array Sergeant Mac's Avatar
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    Ask yourself one question:

    If that gun was in MY hand, just exactly how long would it take me to make it go "bang"?

    (meaning that it's not QUITE as much of an advantage as you'd think it is. Personally, I'd consider it JUST enough to allow a fair chance of success in drawing and firing.)

  5. #49
    Ex Member Array Acecool's Avatar
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    A gun is ALWAYS loaded.

  6. #50
    HKR
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    1. Any and all guns are always loaded.
    2. Any and all guns pointed in my direction are a threat to me.

  7. #51
    Member Array Jerbear1098's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stlouiseman View Post
    I will see your Bang,Bang... Bang and raise you one Bang!

    I call, and raise you an air strike.

  8. #52
    Member Array stlouiseman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerbear1098 View Post
    I call, and raise you an air strike.
    you win!! I fold!!!

  9. #53
    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    You can tell their gun won't fire

    I am NOT willing to bet my life on it.
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

  10. #54
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    My six-decade old eyes do not intend to look for inscriptions, or a safety...
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  11. #55
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    If I am 100% sure that the gun is unloaded or, even if I am 100% sure that it is not a real gun. The bad guy is still getting shot. Shouldn't bring either an unloaded gun or a toy gun to a gun fight.

    Besides, how can you be 100% sure that the gun is unloaded or not real when the adrenaline is pouring into your system and your mind is racing?

    As hot guns said:

    BANG...BANG

    BANG
    ,=====o00o _
    //___l__,\____\,__
    l_--- \___l---[]lllllll[]
    (o)_)-o- (o)_)--o-)_)

  12. #56
    New Member Array donjacki's Avatar
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    as stated prior, weather or not is is loaded ,its pointed at me in a threatening mannor to take my life, i dont care if in there head there not intending to really shoot,im not in there head. extinguish the threat.

  13. #57
    Ex Member Array JOHNSMITH's Avatar
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    And remember the cardinal rule of firearm safety? All guns are always loaded.

  14. #58
    VIP Member Array AllAmerican's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    This happens pretty often, BG drawing down with a firearm that is; unloaded, not charged (hammer down on a 1911 or other SA type handgun), safety activated, or hammer is back though an an empty chamber be it revolver or semi-auto.
    Reports of this come up in the news with regularity toward LEOs, civilians, and BG vs BG too.

    I do know for a fact I would notice if the safety was activated or if the hammer was down on a 1911. I notice this in movies and TV all the time without even trying to find it. Reason being because I know the 1911 very well as that is all I own and have been training with for 7+ yrs. now.
    With a revolver I'm pretty sure I would also note whether the chamber is loaded or not just by looking down the barrel. Street guns used by BGs tend to be short barreled, unlike as commonly portrayed in movies and on TV shows. In fact I did do/notice just this the one time I was mugged in an alley way and the BG held a revolver level at my right eye. I had a perfect view of a FMJ bullet.

    Knowing myself I believe I would react same as HotGuns, only with some slight modification.
    I train at this type of scenario often (weekly) with dry fire because in my world for me it is the item most statistically probable to occur to me as a victim be it on the streets or at/in my home.

    If the BG is within arms reach of me, I will close distance _toward_ him.
    There is no good tactical reason to attempt running from him or to keep him at distance. I would bring myself to within his personal space and be one among him, so as to with my weak hand grasp his weapon and tear (!) it away _or_ to grasp his wrist or forearm and with a strong stiff arm stroke push his hand and arm down and to his inside which for most average persons is an area of physical weakness due to weak development of the posterior deltoid muscle. It's far easier for an average person to pull their arm inward against resistance than it is to pull the arm outward against resistance.
    As I using my own body weight push his arm down and inward just enough to get the bore of the gun off of my body, which is all that I need...and I don't care if he is able to pull the trigger and make his gun go bang, I then draw with my strong hand and either zipper him in the gut up the chest as I stay in direct contact with him holding his wrist/arm. Or I draw my pocket knife and I very quickly with multiple straight inward strokes perforate his stomach, chest, and/or strike direct into the trachea or up under the chin above the Adams apple. He will stop.

    If the BG is outside my arms reach, then I follow my training.
    I note if he is left or right handed. Which ever hand is his strong hand I leap (not slide..not run...not side step) to the same lateral direction as is his strong hand. If he's right handed as are some 90+ % of people then I get off the X and I leap to his right, which is my left. If I cam not physically able to leap then I do my damned best to with quickness swiftly move myself by what ever means to that direction. Same if BG is left handed, I move lateral to his left which is my right.
    As I am moving on the lateral he will sense my movement but have trouble in precisely placing hand to match his eye as again thanks to general human physiology as it it far tougher (and in this case slower) to move the arm outward as it is inward.
    While I am in movement I will also be drawing from concealment and quite possibly choosing to go into a crouch too if possible. None of these reactions will be expected by the BG. I am now inside his action/reaction loop and he is at this point reacting to me rather than vice versa.

    The second to last thing he sees or hears of me are sudden flashes of light and noise that sounds like firecrackers.
    I am targeting preferably his upper chest but may choose and will take the sternum, diaphragm/upper gut, or even if it's stable the head/face as a target. He will continue to see and hear these odd unexpected flashes of light and sound until either he goes down like Frazier or I hit slide lock, and pause for a second to drop the mag and reload.

    Bang bang bang...bang

    - Janq

    P.S. _ I have already and long long ago come to grips in my own mind with being shot. I have been stabbed in a street fight. It hurts, but not at first in the immediate. Every one I know who has been shot reports same similar. Some didn't even know they were shot at first and felt nothing.
    I've accepted that if attacked it's a good chance I'll be shot. I also have accepted and know by fact that if I am shot I may still have ability for seconds if not minutes to stay in the fight and that I should keep fighting. Do not stop until I can physically no longer continue. If it hurts okay, accept that. Fight. Get mad. Apply fear and worry to fuel rage, and by that keep on fighting...to survive, or to take one or another mother with me to the dirt.

    As always, excellent post. Especially the PS part. I have thought it out myself. I just tell myself, "they picked the wrong guy to fight today"
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  15. #59
    Member Array Jeepasaurus's Avatar
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    When I was stationed in Savannah, GA I had a guy pull a gun on me. I wasnt carrying anything myself. It was a Beretta 92. He demanded my wallet, I refused telling him it was 2 days before payday and to check the calendar next time. He racked the slide. He then demanded my watch (a military issue plastic timex.) When I refused, he racked the slide again. Nothing was ejected, I instantly knew he had a gun with no bullets and no magazine. I reached back, pulled my wallet out in my right hand. I reached out to "give" it to him. Just before he reached it, I dropped it. His initial reaction was to reach for it. As he did, my right hand grabbed his wrist behind the pistol. I pulled him forward and down. As he came forward, I caught him with my left forearm in the back of the neck and hit hit the pavement face first. I placed my left knee in the back of his neck with most of my weight on it. With my right hand, I bent his arm behind his back. Some people near by seen me take him down and ran over, thinking I had attacked him. I yelled for them to call 9-1-1, and they finally did. I held him until the police arrived.

    Had I not had good knowledge of the Beretta 92F, I would not have known he had an unloaded gun and would have willingly given up my wallet.
    Confuse a liberal, use logic and facts.


  16. #60
    Member Array Klaatu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllAmerican View Post
    As always, excellent post. Especially the PS part. I have thought it out myself. I just tell myself, "they picked the wrong guy to fight today"
    Truly. Excellent post, Janq. I have made that choice twice.

    A lone punk jumps out of a recessed doorway and throws gun in my face. Scary fast! He is yelling, I am assessing and ... he has an empty .25 derringer. I took a deep breath, drew and said, mine is loaded, drop yours. He turned, ran into a fire hydrant and fell into the street. A witness across the street was already dialing 911. We both stand over him for the three minute wait for the cruiser - really, only three minutes in downtown Atlanta! It was hard not to laugh as the punk lay there crying and wet himself. The LEOs did laugh.

    Another time as I round a corner of a building I hear "give me your money, granny". I am now standing less than twenty feet from two gangsts, one with a gun in a LOL's (little old lady) face. Now the gun is on me. Something does not look right. The punk is holding a BB gun with red, plastic accessories! I start drawing and moving to get granny out of my line of fire. show me your hands! I have never seen two guys move so fast. Before I can think of something else clever to say, they are way gone.

    Those were very bad days. Bad SA put me at unacceptable risk. I should have observed, prepared and reacted faster. On the other hand, if I had proper SA, punk number one would had taken at least two .45 hits from less than ten feet. I like to think I learned valuable lessons from those incidents. I already knew SA is life. I was slack. Never be slack.

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