40-50 Kalamazoo teens beat cyclist unconscious

[cdwolf]

The scenario was; what would you do if you came upon the scene described in the OP. Michigan law may be different, but in Texas it is okay to use deadly force to protect a third party, you are not required to help, but it is within the law.

In Mississippi also, I would help my neighbor and pray for a fast response time! You won't have much time to decide what to do if you find yourself in this situation.


That's what I love about this forum.Being able to mentally go over how you would react.

Sometimes I find it hard to understand when people say I'm not LEO...it's not my job. So they have nothing to fear if budget cuts puts only 2 deputies in your county.
I think defending a life is more then just a job.

How long would you just sit there and watch a stranger get kicked in the head?
30 sec...1 min....what's the average response time?

There's a whole bunch of things going on right now that I don't understand...maybe it's just me..YMMV

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[SleepingZ]

That's just a stupid law!!!!!
You have to watch a man being beaten to death

Spot on!!!!!!


Z

[Over Actor]

You guys all sound tough and though your logic is great............


YOUR GETTING ATTACKED BY 40-50 PEOPLE!

quit playing the "what if" games and realize that you would have no chance of moving tactically, and making sure all shots are on target. PLEASE...... that sounds so lame

I have been in several gun fights with 30+ people with 2-3 people. Maybe the Military mentality that I have isnt the same that some others have. I can move tactically and make sure shots are on target.
You asked a What if question. I gave you a straight answer. You have a right to your own opinion to think that it was a lame answer, or "Hollywood" scene.

If you plow through the crowd,stop, get out, and open fire as you said, your going down legally multiple homicide style. Why on earth would stop near a crowd of people after you? That is escalation and possible instigation, horribly bad vocab words for us CC'ers. Leave those thoughts at home, this isn't hollywood.

If a man is being beat to death by a crowd, IE THEY are beating him not 1 man fighting and a crowd watching like a bar fight and I feel that Lethal Force is nessicary(sp) then you have the right to protect that man. Im not from Michigan, Im not trying to interpet the law there. But in every state that I have had a CCL I am able to defend the life of anyone that I feel is in danger. That is proper escilation of force.

But alas you do have a dog in the fight aswell. It would be up to a jury to convict me a Homicide or aquit me of Justifyiable Homicide. Like other have said it is your choice turn around walk away and call 911? Or fight to protect that person. Sorry again if I sound "hollywood"

[atctimmy]

I have been in several gun fights with 30+ people with 2-3 people. Maybe the Military mentality that I have isnt the same that some others have. I can move tactically and make sure shots are on target.
You asked a What if question. I gave you a straight answer. You have a right to your own opinion to think that it was a lame answer, or "Hollywood" scene.

Well in this case you are facing 40+ and all you have is a handgun. In the military you had a long arm and a few friends for back up. There won't be any crew served weapons or air strikes to back you up either. I think that your gun would run dry before you "stopped" less than half of them.

My answer to the op is if I saw a man (not a family member or friend) being beaten by 40 or 50 people I'd flee as fast as possible.

[billfromtx]

It's a brave, new world out there. This sort of appalling bestiality isn't going to be so unique, anymore, if current trends are any indication.

Go armed. Always.

Sad but true brother....

[Over Actor]

"Cut the head off of the snake, and the snake comes unraveled"

I carry a springfield 1911 hi cap 3 spare mags just waiting for the zombies.

[ccw9mm]

I think that your gun would run dry before you "stopped" less than half of them.

That presupposes all members of a group, no matter how large, are going to have the gumption of the first few. Generally, that's not how groups function. I think the likelihood is very high that someone with ~20rds in hand could stop several first-movers, at which point the rest might well stop attacking due to the probabilities (not the round count). Determination can go a long way in a multi-on-one situation.

[NEcowboy]

Everyone has to remember that these are a bunch of punk kids not trained soldiers. They have no idea if you have 7+1 in the gun or a rocket launcher. They see a gun and they are out of there. They are not fighting for anything like freedom or country. They are mob mentality punks being punks. They will not keep fighting if death is a possible outcome. They have nothing to fight for. Seems like they aren't even looking for money in this scenerio.

My last post I answered as if I was the one being attacked. I misunderstood and was off track.

If I came across a crowd like that I would call 911 then start yelling 5-0..POLICE! COPS are coming!! Iif they started walking toward me I would have to draw. If they started running toward me I would have to draw and shoot. Between the threat of the cops coming and a gun pointed at them ready to defend myself they are not sticking around.

[LongRider]

The most amazing thing about all of this is that it is not even shocking. More immoral SOB running amok. Being a tad past 50 this story makes me want to take up bike riding in Kalamazoo. This kind of stuff is just plain sick other than the victim it does not appear that any humans were involved

[LongRider]

if you are not directly threatened you have no right to use force.

WRONG please do not post inaccurate or untrue statements. The whole post is insulting No law anywhere requires you stand by and do nothing while a human being is being beaten to death. Every single single state in the Union permits the use of lethal force in the defense of self and others from grievous injury or death. In my state lethal force extends to the defense of property. If I am wrong, prove it, post the law, not an uninformed opinion. This is a fact based board

Regarding tough guys or wanna be. It is not about being a hero or tough guy it is about standing up and doing the right thing, about not being a spineless coward. Even if it was illegal I would rather do the time than live with the memory of allowing some old helpless guy being beaten to death. If selfish self centered fear is my guiding force than I have lost and the evil has won. NOT gonna happen. It is not about wanna-bees and tough guys. I have been there done that. I do not live in shame. I have the silver dollar sized hole in my skull and other scars that say I stand up when called to do so

[PointnClick]

Easy call for me... the alphas are easy to spot. Pick a big alpha, aim carefully, and turn his head into hamburger and bone splinters.

I guarantee 3 solid seconds of stunned silence. You say, "Who's next...?"

They won't do the "50 versus your potential ammunition quantity" math... they will evaporate. If there is indecision, pick another large alpha, and repeat. You won't fire more than 2 or 3 rounds in this scenario if the mob takes you seriously...

What is that signature line I see here all the time...? "Evil exists only when good men do nothing..."



Something like that...

[atctimmy]

Well, there is something to be said for tenacity and surprise. It would all depend on the crowd itself. If it looked to me like a bunch of middle class highschool kids then you guys are right you could win. If it was a little tougher crowd you're dead. It only takes one guy to shoot you in the back.

[P7fanatic]

Another question why did he stop riding to begin with?!

The group knocked him off his bike.......duh.
At least it says so in the article.
I doubt he intentionally stopped to talk about the weather with 50 kids.

[Super Trucker]

This whole thread got off line...... Let's all remember back to CCW training, if you are not directly threatened you have no right to use force. As soon as you draw on the pack of little balls of hate (for bbqgrill) you now have brought the threat attention to you and because you have caused yourself to be put in that situation as soon as you pull the trigger and "take out the lead guy" as some of you "swear" you'll do (which i still don't believe half of you, the internet is a great place to talk up your ego on what you MIGHT do), you have now committed murder and you are no better than them.


tough guys to take on a group of 50 people....... quit kidding yourselves

I am not arguing your logic, but it is legal to shoot the punks in this story. The bikers life was in jeopardy so if you were to be a upstanding citizen you can shoot these turds, here in MI.

[TN_Mike]

Good Lord. If ever there was an example of why to carry extra ammo.....

I'd have to shoot a few of them and hope the rest would scatter. I don't think I could stand by and watch a group like that try to beat a man to death.