11 a.m. on a weekday when I'm normally at work, and two strange men knock on my door

This is a discussion on 11 a.m. on a weekday when I'm normally at work, and two strange men knock on my door within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'm home today with a sick daughter, and the wife is out. 99% of the time I'm not home at this time, and either the ...

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Thread: 11 a.m. on a weekday when I'm normally at work, and two strange men knock on my door

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    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
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    11 a.m. on a weekday when I'm normally at work, and two strange men knock on my door

    I'm home today with a sick daughter, and the wife is out. 99% of the time I'm not home at this time, and either the wife is home alone, my daughter may be home alone, or they are home together. My wife has a bad habit of slinging the door open to find out who is knocking, even though I've warned her of the danger involved.

    To counteract that, I've been researching a secure storm/screen door to install that will allow the front door to be opened, yet still provide security. I haven't been successful yet. I did install an intercom system, which will help IF she will use it. Haven't had occasion to test her on that yet as far as I know. Sometimes she'll ignore a knock, sometimes she'll sling the door wide open. It depends on her mood. Not smart, I know, but you can't force other people to make good decisions, even life-saving decisions, if they refuse to acknowledge any danger.

    I also installed a city-approved "No Solicitors" sign by our front door that CAN'T be missed. Note: it's a "no solicitors" sign, not just a "no sales" sign. "Solicitors" to me covers anybody except city officials and LEO. IMO it also covers any religious folks knocking for any reason.

    So I hear a knock. Not the doorbell, which works fine. Just a light knock. (I have no intention of answering the door--all our friends, coworkers, and friendly neighbors have our phone numbers and know to call first rather than just showing up--and I'm curious to see what might happen on a normal day when I'm not home.) I slip upstairs and go to a front bedroom where I can look outside. I can't see who is at the door because we have a little inset covered area. I do have a front-door peep-hole, but if I walk up to it, the guys outside will probably hear the floor creaking. So I wait. After a minute or two, another light knock. I just wait. Daughter is in bed sick, so she's not moving around. Note: no strange cars are parked out front, nor did I hear any cars or car doors previous to the knock.

    I have heard of burglars who will knock to see if anyone is home, and if not, sometimes circle around back to gain entry. That's what I was watching for. I was wearing bottom sweats, a hoody sweatshirt, and socks. But since I'm ALWAYS armed at home, I already had what I needed on me. If I'm not in pants, I wear a dual-holster SmartCarry with a .45 and a .357 snubby in it. So I had my .45 in my hand in case the front door got kicked in.

    Something else I've learned from this forum is to always carry my cell phone on me or have it close by at night. I think I learned this initially from Janq, but I've heard others mention it since. So I had my phone in one hand and my .45 in the other, just waiting.

    Eventually I see 2 adult males come from my porch area. One is a white male, 30's, with a 3/4 trench coat on, and carrying a soft, thin case of something. The other is an African-American male, 40's, with a 3/4 trench coat on, a broad-brimmed hat on (something we rarely see in this neighborhood), and also carrying a soft, thin case.

    In the 13 years we've lived here, we've had a few Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses knock, usually once every year or two. None have ever been as old as these guys. And I've never seen an African-American Mormon or JW around here. Yeh, they probably exist... just saying I haven't seen any.

    So these guys walk in my front yard and disappear out of my sight. (Remind me to cut down that evergreen tree so I can see the corner of our house better.) I'm not sure if they are circling my house, so I wait and watch for awhile. Eventually I'm convinced they went on down the block.

    Here's my point. 99% of the time I wouldn't be home at 11 a.m. on a weekday. The wife, or the daughter, or both would be. That's the same with most houses in my neighborhood. We're mostly all working-class, with a few retirees thrown in. If someone is selling something, what woman in her right mind would open the door to two strange men, much less invite them in? (It's about 40 degrees out now, so opening the door very long will cool the house down quickly.)

    And the same point for any religious folks: is it proper to send two males out to a neighborhood that is predominantly female at the time?

    For either salemen or religious folks, I don't think it's ethical. No matter their purpose, if they want to talk to the most people possible, they should come in the early evening.

    So the longer I thought about it, the angrier I got about them ignoring my "No Solicitors" sign. So I called the non-emergency number of our local police. I first ask if the "No Solicitors" sign means anything (is it enforceable). "Yes," she said, "it does mean something."
    Me: Well, I've got the sign on my door, and two guys just ignored it.
    Her: What do they look like?
    Me: One white male, one African-American male, 30's-40's, 3/4 length trench coats, one with a broad-brimmed hat.
    Her: What color are their clothes?
    Me: I don't know. They had coats on.
    Her: Where are they now?
    Me: They walked west of my house.
    Her: What color clothes do they have on?
    Me: I DON"T KNOW, I couldn't see their clothes because of the trench coats. There THE ONLY TWO GUYS walking around the neighborhood right now. You can't miss them.
    Her: What are they wearing?
    Me: TRENCH COATS.
    Her: What color?
    Me: I DON'T KNOW...........(long pause because apparently she's GOT TO HAVE a color )... neutral colors, colors that don't stand out.
    Her: What is your address?
    Me: They're in the X-hundred block of XXXXX.
    Her: Do you want to speak to an officer when he arrives?
    Me: No. I'd just like these guys checked out, and reminded of "No Solicitors" sign.
    Her: Okay, we'll send someone over.

    In about 5 minutes a cruiser rolled by my house headed in the direction of the guys. About 5 minutes later, a different police vehicle rolled by in the same direction.

    Good response time for a non-emergency, IMO. No complaints there. I called the police station later and thanked them for responding, and asked what they had found. She said they were unable to locate the subjects.

    I'm really annoyed at these guys for ignoring my sign, and knocking on my door at a time when I'm almost never home. Here's a thought that popped in my head as I was waiting for the police to arrive. I wonder if it would have been better in some ways to answer the door with a gun on my hip (and one in hand behind my back ) and ask them why they didn't read and follow the sign. I realize that would have marked my house as one with at least one gun, but it also might have marked my house as one to avoid if they were looking to rob an empty house, or if they were trying to avoid the male of the family. (Note: our vehicles are always inside the garage, so no one can tell whether we are home or not by the vehicles outside.) I thought about opening the door, letting the pre-alarm ding, and tell them they have 20 seconds before the police are automatically summoned, now WHAT DO YOU WANT, and WHY DIDN'T YOU READ THE SIGN?

    LESSONS LEARNED
    Pro:
    Being always armed saves time. I didn't have to go looking for a weapon. If the guys had kicked in the door instead of knocking, there would have been a delay in me getting a weapon if I didn't have it (them) on me already. My guns are either on me or locked up, so it would have taken a few seconds to get to them and unlock them. Any guns upstairs would not have been accessible without going through any intruders due to the storage location at the other end of the house. Any guns downstairs would have been accessible only after I unlocked the storage item. The guys also would have been much closer to my daughter than I was at the time.

    Having a phone on me was a good thing. I didn't have to go searching for it at the other end of the house.

    Con:
    I didn't have the police numbers programmed into my phone. While I could always have dialed 911, I might get a little faster response time by calling the dispatcher myself. I don't know, that's just a guess.

    I don't normally carry a spare mag when I'm in exercise pants. Perhaps I had enough ammo for a home invasion: 14 .45's and a snub. I know, I know... shot placement.

    My stinkin' shotgun hasn't come in yet. It's been on order for months. Maybe I should forget the 590 and just go buy a 500 or an 870.

    Note to police: thanks for responding.

    Note to door knockers, whoever you are: READ THE DAMN SIGN, and STAY OFF MY PROPERTY. I don't need your religion, if that's what you were here for. I attend church fairly regularly (in spite of my sometimes bad language ), I probably have more Bible versions that most of you solicitors. (I know, I know: it's not what you have or read, it's what you apply.) In closing, STAY AWAY FROM MY FAMILY, especially when I'm not around.

    Some of you will think I'm paranoid. I'm good with that. In fact, if no one thinks I'm paranoid, then I'm not being careful enough.

    Any comments?

    Oh, and if you're going to visit, call first.

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    VIP Member Array HKinNY's Avatar
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    You did fine. Hope your daughter is feeling better. You don't say how old your daughter is but maybe to can teach your daughter about opening the door and she spending more time with mom maybe it will rub off.

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    I think you did fine Grady. Someone here said "100% of home invasions happen at home." You never know and ignoring the No solicitation sign shows that they either can't read, or don't care. I may have used the intercom you have to tell them to read the sign and have a nice day, good bye. Then, if they persisted, call the cops.

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    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grady View Post
    LESSONS LEARNED

    Pro:
    Being always armed saves time. I didn't have to go looking for a weapon. If the guys had kicked in the door instead of knocking, there would have been a delay in me getting a weapon if I didn't have it (them) on me already. My guns are either on me or locked up, so it would have taken a few seconds to get to them and unlock them. Any guns upstairs would not have been accessible without going through any intruders due to the storage location at the other end of the house. Any guns downstairs would have been accessible only after I unlocked the storage item. The guys also would have been much closer to my daughter than I was at the time.

    Having a phone on me was a good thing. I didn't have to go searching for it at the other end of the house.

    Con:
    I didn't have the police numbers programmed into my phone. While I could always have dialed 911, I might get a little faster response time by calling the dispatcher myself. I don't know, that's just a guess.

    I don't normally carry a spare mag when I'm in exercise pants. Perhaps I had enough ammo for a home invasion: 14 .45's and a snub. I know, I know... shot placement.

    My stinkin' shotgun hasn't come in yet. It's been on order for months. Maybe I should forget the 590 and just go buy a 500 or an 870.

    Note to door knockers, whoever you are: I probably have more Bible versions that most of you solicitors.

    Any comments?

    Oh, and if you're going to visit, call first.
    Grady,

    Great scenario, and good to apply AAR (After Action Review) to get us thinking and prepared.

    1. It's not how many versions you have. It's having the RIGHT version (which they may think you don't).

    2. You (like most of us) probably need to do a better job of being a witness. What color WERE those trench coats?

    3. What is your phone number? My wife is out of town and I'll be over for dinner. What time are you serving it?
    Last edited by miklcolt45; February 16th, 2009 at 04:41 PM. Reason: emphasize for clarity
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

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    Distinguished Member Array Reborn's Avatar
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    They were probably just there to give you your part of the stimulus package.........I think you did fine........
    Psalms 144:1
    Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight.
    Senior Instructor for Tactical and Defensive of Texas
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    Hmmm. Grady, you have two choices. Answer the door. Ignore it. Neither is perfect when it is total strangers there unexpected.
    Trench coats around here would be really out of place. Don't know about where you are. Sounds like home-repair rip-off dudes to me. "Do you want us to install plastic siding?"

    You can't do much about a wife who will not pay attention to situational awareness. It is hopeless.

    Instead of the storm door, have you thought about a security door? Something of wrought iron with a deadbolt. You have to be careful to not trap yourself inside if there is a fire, so pick the lock type carefully.

    Oh, and cut that tree isn't an option. I'll guess the Mrs. won't allow it.

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    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
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    Wow Grady...that had to take some time to write. Thanks for sharing your story.

    Glad it turned out well.

    Rick

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    Senior Member Array ICTsnub's Avatar
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    Robin thinks I'm nuts, but I rarely answer the door for a stranger. People that know me call from the driveway. To me, a doorbell or knock is a request, not a demand.
    I'm not a lawyer or a LEO, just a pantload with a computer.

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    Grady? Quite an unusual circumstance for you in the fact that this didn't happen in a restaurant.

    Okay, kidding aside. I think you did fine, I like to see aggressive defensive posture. If these were GG's they probably didn't consider themselves "solicitors", and didn't think your sign applied to them. If they were BG's and checking out the neighborhood you got "tagged" as no one being home at that time of day.

    Of course I didn't experience your situation, but I'd been tempted to answer them by the intercom to let them know that someone was home and also discuss the importance of them taking your sign seriously.
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

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    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grady View Post
    Some of you will think I'm paranoid. I'm good with that. In fact, if no one thinks I'm paranoid, then I'm not being careful enough.

    Any comments?

    Oh, and if you're going to visit, call first.
    You're not paranoid, you're just being smart.

    I never open the door for strangers. I don't care if they know I'm home or not.

    The two patrol cars couldn't find the trench coat guys because some fool probably allowed them inside their house.
    Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. Winston Churchill

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    +1 on answering with the intercom. Isn't that why you bought it, so you don't have to open the door? Otherwise, well done.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
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    VIP Member Array HKinNY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ppkheat View Post
    Grady? Quite an unusual circumstance for you in the fact that this didn't happen in a restaurant. Okay, kidding aside.
    Could have given the spare house to your cousin who didn't bring his house with him but know hows to use it. To To Funny. Ha Ha Ha

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    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    Do follow through on the secure screen door, but you also should think about getting a dog or two.
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

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    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HITCH KING View Post
    You did fine. Hope your daughter is feeling better. You don't say how old your daughter is but maybe to can teach your daughter about opening the door and she spending more time with mom maybe it will rub off.
    Thanks. She's feeling some better. She's 16 and knows not to open the door. She's been accepting of my self-defense advice. I'll occassionally show her a post here, or a story in the news, to help her become aware of what the world is like.

    She has a self-defense plan of action in case of a home invasion if she is home alone. I've taught her to keep her cell phone on her at all times... she knows to go to a predetermined place, grab the guns, hit the panic button and call 911... Like father, like daughter: I've got an auto and a revolver in place for her. She's got 22 rounds to get the job done without needing a reload. Expected police response time in an emergency is 3 minutes. (Cough)falsealarm/ forgottocallalarmcompany/ policeswarmingmyyardin3minutes(cough)

    The real danger is when Mom is home because Mom often disables the alarm and then goes about in condition white. I just pray that if something ever happens, 1) I'll be around, and 2) I'll be successful and the girls will be unharmed.

    Quote Originally Posted by buzzgum View Post
    Someone here said "100% of home invasions happen at home."
    I wish everyone realized this, and the possibility that it could happen to anyone regardless of the area in which they live.

    Quote Originally Posted by buzzgum View Post
    You never know and ignoring the No solicitation sign shows that they either can't read, or don't care. I may have used the intercom you have to tell them to read the sign and have a nice day, good bye. Then, if they persisted, call the cops.
    That's probably what I'll do from now on, unless I get bad vibes about announcing myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by miklcolt45 View Post
    Grady,

    Great scenario, and good to apply AAR (After Action Review) to get us thinking and prepared.
    That's why I posted this. I know it was a non-incident, but until the 2 guys went straight past my house instead of turning to go behind it, the situation mimicked a burglary-turned home invasion.

    Quote Originally Posted by miklcolt45 View Post
    It's not how many versions you have. It's having the RIGHT version (which they may think you don't).
    Yup. BTDT.

    Quote Originally Posted by miklcolt45 View Post
    You (like most of us) probably need to do a better job of being a witness. What color WERE those trench coats?
    You are right. My mind went blank as I was trying to pick out one of those off/light brown and off/light grey colors, then realizing I didn't take a good look at the colors. Sheesh, I couldn't get through to the operator how obvious these guys would be just walking around, regardless of what they were wearing. In all my 13 years in this neighborhood, I've never seen a white guy and an African-American, both in trench coats, walking down the road. Plus NOBODY else was out. It may have been 40-ish, but the wind chill was less than that, somewhere in the "dang cold" range.

    Quote Originally Posted by miklcolt45 View Post
    What is your phone number? My wife is out of town and I'll be over for dinner. What time are you serving it?
    No need to call--just send me your picture. I'll recognize you as I'm watching from my gun tower.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    They were probably just there to give you your part of the stimulus package.........
    That's what I'm afraid of (the bill). Next time I'll tell them grady doesn't live here any more. They've got enough of my money already.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Hmmm. Grady, you have two choices. Answer the door. Ignore it. Neither is perfect when it is total strangers there unexpected.
    Trench coats around here would be really out of place. Don't know about where you are. Sounds like home-repair rip-off dudes to me. "Do you want us to install plastic siding?"

    You can't do much about a wife who will not pay attention to situational awareness. It is hopeless.
    All I can do is make provisions for her, and hope she survives an attack. That'll probably be the only thing that would really change her mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Instead of the storm door, have you thought about a security door? Something of wrought iron with a deadbolt.
    That's exactly what I'm looking for, although something that will double as a storm door to help keep cold air out. But I may not find a dual-purpose door, whereupon I will go with a wrought-iron door. I priced one already but it was way overpriced at $2600. I'm sure I can get a quality one cheaper than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    You have to be careful to not trap yourself inside if there is a fire, so pick the lock type carefully.
    Exactly. We've got that covered, as we faced the same issue with the front door.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Oh, and cut that tree isn't an option. I'll guess the Mrs. won't allow it.
    Actually, we agree on getting rid of the tree. I hate to cut it down, but it's the only high-foliage item left from the previous owners. It's a security issue for the corner of the house as one could hide a small S.W.A.T. team behind it. It will be coming down in a few weeks. I should take it down now, but I don't want to leave a huge bare spot. I'm still trying to blend into the neighborhood. It just grew too much--too tall and so wide it's almost in the neighbor's yard. Sorry, tree.

    Quote Originally Posted by bandit383 View Post
    Wow Grady...that had to take some time to write. Thanks for sharing your story.

    Glad it turned out well.

    Rick
    Thanks. The time it took... well, to make a short story long... my Dad went to college late in life, and because of that, he advised me to take typing while I was in high school. That was back when it wasn't "cool" for a guy to take typing. But the class was almost totally girls, so I'm glad I took it. Too bad I was too young, dumb, and broke to date any of them.

    As far as taking a while to type, what else was I going to do? I couldn't visit the gun shop until after the wife got home. I went after she got home, and I even found 3 mags for my Glock-to-be.

    Quote Originally Posted by ICTsnub View Post
    Robin thinks I'm nuts, but I rarely answer the door for a stranger. People that know me call from the driveway. To me, a doorbell or knock is a request, not a demand.
    Good to see you around. I hope things are stabilizing in Wichita.

    Quote Originally Posted by ppkheat View Post
    Grady? Quite an unusual circumstance for you in the fact that this didn't happen in a restaurant.
    Yeh, we've cut out some restaurant visits... but when we go, I'm still armed. And we're avoiding the buffets more because they are soooo bad for my waistline.

    Quote Originally Posted by ppkheat View Post
    If they were BG's and checking out the neighborhood you got "tagged" as no one being home at that time of day.
    That's a good point. If I had answered, any burglars might have crossed our house off the list due to a potential retiree home all day. (And a grumpy one at that.)

    Quote Originally Posted by ppkheat View Post
    Of course I didn't experience your situation, but I'd been tempted to answer them by the intercom to let them know that someone was home and also discuss the importance of them taking your sign seriously.


    Quote Originally Posted by Patti View Post
    I never open the door for strangers. I don't care if they know I'm home or not.
    And I'll bet you're armed, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patti View Post
    The two patrol cars couldn't find the trench coat guys because some fool probably allowed them inside their house.
    You're probably right.

    Quote Originally Posted by sigmanluke View Post
    +1 on answering with the intercom. Isn't that why you bought it, so you don't have to open the door? Otherwise, well done.
    Sort of. I bought it specifically for the wife, since I always answer the door armed. But it does make sense for me to use it, and I have before.

    The reason I didn't use it this time was that if these guys were burglars/home invaders looking for a supposedly empty house to break into, I wanted it to happen right then, with me home, rather than when I was gone. My daughter won't answer the door or even speak to strangers on the intercom, so if they were casing for an empty house, our house would appear empty even if she was home.

    I think I'm still concerned because my daughter hasn't been tested yet. She knows what she needs to do, and I constantly go over things with her, but I'm not sure how she'll react when something actually occurs.

    But the intercom is great. I should have installed one years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by HITCH KING View Post
    Could have given the spare house to your cousin who didn't bring his house with him but know hows to use it. To To Funny. Ha Ha Ha
    NOW I get it! Took me awhile. Good memory.

    Quote Originally Posted by obxned View Post
    Do follow through on the secure screen door, but you also should think about getting a dog or two.
    Good advice on both counts. We'd love a dog, but unfortunately the daughter is allergic to most pets. We may get lucky and find one she isn't allergic to, but otherwise a dog may have to wait until she goes to college.

    Man, I love dogs, and I'd love to have one or two right now. But I've just got to work within the limitations I've got right now.

    But in time... in time...

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    VIP Member Array HKinNY's Avatar
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    Be safe.

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