Real Life Scenario

Real Life Scenario

This is a discussion on Real Life Scenario within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This happened a couple miles from my place last night. My question follows the article: WHEAT RIDGE, Colo. -- Wheat Ridge police are looking for ...

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Thread: Real Life Scenario

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array BlackPR's Avatar
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    Nov 2007
    Lakewood Colorado

    Real Life Scenario

    This happened a couple miles from my place last night. My question follows the article:

    WHEAT RIDGE, Colo. -- Wheat Ridge police are looking for the man who they say ran his ex-girlfriend off the road and then shot her to death as she sat in her car.

    It happened just before 10 p.m. Tuesday, near Wadsworth Boulevard and West 35th Avenue.

    Police say they received a call from a man who told them his girlfriend had just called him to say she was being followed by her ex-boyfriend. She said her ex-boyfriend was trying to run her off the road, as she was driving on West 44th Avenue near Wadsworth Boulevard, the man said.

    While officers were responding to the scene they also received reports of gunshots being fired in the area. Police said the gunman shot at the victim's vehicle somewhere between 44th Avenue and 38th Avenue on Wadsworth Boulevard.

    When police arrived at the intersection at West 35th Avenue, they found a Dodge Caliber that appeared to have been forced off the road and into a chain-link fence. When the officer approached the car, she could see a woman -- dead in the driver's seat.

    Officers spotted another vehicle stopped in the area and found a witness who had been driving behind the victim's Dodge.

    A witness told police when they stopped to help the driver they saw a man get out of another car -- a dark sedan.

    "The witness pulled over and had exited his vehicle to see if the driver of the Dodge was injured. The witness then reported seeing a man stop and get out of a dark colored sedan and fire a gun into the driver's side of the Dodge. The man then got back into the sedan and left the area," said Lisa Stigall of the Wheat Ridge Police Department.

    Stigall said the gunman "approached the victim, and fired multiple shots into her vehicle at close range."

    The woman was pronounced dead at the scene. Her identity is being withheld until her family can be notified.

    Police said they are looking for Tyler James Martin, 36, of Denver. He is described as 6 feet tall and weighing 250 pounds. Martin is balding, with brown hair and brown eyes. He should be considered armed and dangerous, police said.

    Martin was last seen driving a dark green 1998 Mercury Mystique, with Colorado license plate 720 SXA.

    Wheat Ridge police have an arrest warrant charging Martin with first-degree murder.

    Shortly after the warrant, SWAT officers surrounded Martin's home at 13th Avenue and Osceola Street in Denver and kicked the door down. They stormed in but it's not known if any arrests were made.

    Martin has no previous arrest record, according to the Colorado Bureau of Investigation.
    Been thinking about this off and on today. You are the guy who stopped to help. With what little info you have from this article... what would you do?
    The facts are indisputable. There is more data supporting the benefits of Conceal Carry than there is supporting global warming. If you choose ignorance, in light of all the evidence, in order to bolster your irrational fear of guns, you are a greater threat to society than any gun owner.

  2. #2
    Member Array chenemf's Avatar
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    Aug 2006
    Duck and cover. Call 911.

  3. #3
    Member Array bigiceman's Avatar
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    Aug 2007
    Fort Worth, Texas
    If I am in the vicinity of the vehicle and the man is shooting at it, he is shooting at me and I will have to return fire. The person in the article may not have been able to return fire, or may have chosen not to. Dial 911 when the exchange is over.

    If they are just walking up to the vehicle and I am not there yet and they open fire on a defenseless person in the car, open fire to stop them. Call 911 when the exchange is over.
    But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself...
    LTC(RET) Dave Grossman

    Revolutionary War Veterans Association Shooter Qualification: Cook

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  5. #4
    VIP Member Array boricua's Avatar
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    Raleigh, NC
    In NC I am required to retreat if I can. So, I would get back in my car and drive to a safe location, with my EDC ready to fire, and call 911. If possible, I would position myself where I am able to see what's happening and take notes to help me become a good witness in court.
    Duty, Honor, Country...MEDIC!!!
    ¡Cuánto duele crecer, cuan hondo es el dolor de alzarse en puntillas y observar con temblores de angustia, esa cosa tremenda, que es la vida del hombre! - René Marqués

  6. #5
    Senior Member Array BradyM77's Avatar
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    Dec 2008
    Be the best witness possible. I have a good camera phone with zoom. So I'm hiding and that is. Him, his car, his license. All the while I'm on the bluetooth earpiece with police describing what I see. Everybody has the right to defend themselves, I choose to use mine. At least that's what I'll be telling myself while I try to sleep at night...hope I'm never faced with that kind of situation.
    "I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, you can't prove anything!" Bart Simpson

  7. #6
    Senior Member Array BlackPR's Avatar
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    Nov 2007
    Lakewood Colorado
    Here's some more info... and from my perspective it changes things a bit. Once the guy with the gun makes eye contact with me, I'm in fear for my life.

    WHEAT RIDGE - He thought she needed some help with her car, nothing more. He didn't expect to see a murder and have the killer look right at him.

    "I thought that maybe she had fallen asleep or dozed off," he told 9NEWS on Wednesday. "I saw her veer off the road, off the right shoulder of the road and then hit the fence. I went over to try and help her."

    9NEWS has chosen to not release his name because of what happened next.

    The moment he got out of his car near 35th Avenue and Wadsworth Boulevard on Tuesday night, he noticed another man walk up to 34-year-old Amber Kathleen Cremeens' car and fire three shots.

    "I looked up and then I saw him shoot her at point-blank range," the witness said. "He had tunnel vision. He had an agenda. He was out to kill this person."

    "He was very nonchalant about it," he said. "I saw him turn toward me after he shot her. He looked right at me and he had no interest at all."

    Wheat Ridge Police are now actively looking for Tyler James Martin, 35. They believe he's the man who killed Cremeens, his ex-girlfriend, along the side of Wadsworth Tuesday night.

    "He's balding. He's got dark hair and brown eyes," said Lisa Stigall, the spokesperson for the Wheat Ridge Police Department.

    She is hoping someone will be able to tell them where Martin is. She says he drives a green four-door Mercury Mystique with Colorado license plate No. 720-SXA.

    "Often times the public is a big help in these situations," Stigall said.

    The murder is something the witness will never forget.

    "It's just terror. You see someone is in danger. You want to be able to help them and then there is nothing you can do about it," he said.

    "I was just driving home from my mom's house," the witness said. "People say to me, 'Don't you feel lucky?' No, I don't feel lucky. That isn't how I see this at all."

    Police say Cremeens was on the phone with a current boyfriend when all of this was starting to materialize. He called police shortly before the crash.

    "He advised us that he was on a cell phone with her and she was telling him that her ex-boyfriend was following her and trying to run her off the road," Stigall said.

    The boyfriend, who was talking with Cremeens, was trying to help her, trying to get her to turn onto side streets according to police, but apparently she was not able to shake her pursuer.

    Court documents show that when Cremeens neared 35th and Wadsworth she "became hysterical and then the line (with her current boyfriend) went dead."

    Police believe victim and Martin had been dating upwards of eight years. They also believe that the two had broken up back in August. Although there are no records of a restraining order in this case, court records suggest the victim had become increasing worried about her ex-boyfriend's behavior. The victim's current boyfriend has told police that "he had put (the victim's) bills and telephone in his name so that Tyler could not find her."

    "My thoughts go out to the victim's family. It's just awful that any of us had to be a part of this," the witness said.
    The facts are indisputable. There is more data supporting the benefits of Conceal Carry than there is supporting global warming. If you choose ignorance, in light of all the evidence, in order to bolster your irrational fear of guns, you are a greater threat to society than any gun owner.

  8. #7
    Member Array larefugee's Avatar
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    Oct 2008
    Portland, OR
    Getting back into the car before I know what he is going to do puts me in a vulnerable position. I would take cover behind my car, draw my gun, and assess the situation. If I see him start marching over to my position then I'm going to shoot, otherwise be a good witness.

  9. #8
    Member Array adroitus's Avatar
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    Nov 2005
    Willamette Valley
    If you don't know all the details of a situation, there is a good possibility that you will come to the wrong conclusion and do something you regret. Be a good witness, don't get involved, and defend yourself.

  10. #9
    Distinguished Member Array Rugergirl's Avatar
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    Jan 2009
    Somebody elses domestic dispute is the last thing I want to get involved in, if I can avoid it. I would take cover and be a good living witness wherever possible. If the BG takes aim at me, then things change, and sound like Bang, Bang, Bang.
    Disclaimer: The posts made by this member are only the members opinion, not a reflection on anyone else, nor the group, and should not be cause for anyone to get their undergarments wedged in an uncomfortable position.

  11. #10
    Member Array swaggs's Avatar
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    Jan 2009
    I agree with the above - unless he's coming after me I'm not engaging with my weapons. Besides, I'd lose a lot of credibility with a jury having to be brought from my jail cell to testify, as no doubt I would be arrested if I opened fire.

    Even if defending a third party in a situation like this were legal and encouraged, up until he pulled the gun, what's to say he wasn't just going to check on her like I was about to. Even then, I doubt I'd be confident of his intentions in a short enough time to act to prevent the murder.
    "Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more, you should never wish to do less."
    "Save in defense of my native State, with the sincere hope that my poor services may never be needed, I hope I may never be called on to draw my sword" - Gen. R. E. Lee

  12. #11
    Senior Member Array ronwill's Avatar
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    Jun 2006
    Get as much info on the escaping vehicle as I can (color, make, license number, etc.) and render aid to the victim. Chasing the shooter would cause more trouble than it's worth, especially if any bystanders were hurt.
    Member NRA, SAF and
    “America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.” Abraham Lincoln

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Just like we're taught to scan for other threats after we shoot and recover, I try to always think about unexpected threats whenever something happens that is out of the ordinary. Witnessing or having an unusual event should be a canary for potential self defense, raising our alert level to orange. Doesn't matter whether it's the Publisher's Clearing House van in your drive, a fender bender in front of you, or some other non threatening event. You never know. Last year in NYC an ambulance crew stopped to assist when they witnessed a crash. Driver got out and drew down on them. Had just committed a felony and was running from the cops, who apparently were pretty slow in the chase.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    Central Florida
    The BG has already shot his target. You are a witness and could be his next target. leave the area or take cover depending on how close you are and call 911. If he comes your way shoot till he stops or is on the ground.

  15. #14
    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    Can we impose a moratorium on threads titled "Real Life Scenario"? There are already two of them on the first page of the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forum. Name them something a bit more descriptive!

  16. #15
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    I just hate it when they give a description of BG, but FAIL to mention what color is he, white, black, Mexican, japanese, it drives me nuts.

    An ounce of lead is worth 200lbs of cop.

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