Just curious if it would be a justifiable shooting if being threatened / attacked with a knife? Would it depend on the size of the attacker and the victim? Would a 230lb guy have a hard time claiming self defense if a 170lb guy threatened with a blade? How about the other way around, 170lb victim and 230 lb attacker? Comments welcome.
Very justifiable! You should first try to get seperation (SPRINT AWAY ) from the attacker and find a barricade if at all possible, then engage. If you can't and aren't sqeezing the trigger quickly at 21' and he's coming at you your shots need to be accurate or he CAN slice/stab you to death. Two CM one to the mouth, repeat till threat is neutralized. Or use CM. I practice the former with many bad folks wearing vests these days.
A knife is a deadly weapon, no matter who is holding it.
The issue then becomes one of whether the self-defense statutes of your state require you to attempt to retreat before using deadly force, or if you can meet force with equivalent force without any duty to retreat. If the former, than you have to be able to demonstrate that you were unable to retreat from the little bugger with the knife before you were forced to shoot him. If the latter, you have no such duty and can defend yourself immediately when threatened.
You're in FL. You have no duty to retreat. He pulls a knife, you're authorized to immediately respond with deadly force and may shoot him.
Good for Florida. Every state should adopt the same Castle Doctrine as yours! I wrote NC's Reps on this as should everyone else.
I'm getting too darn old to retreat!
SG Former and Future Largo, Florida resident.
The Florida "Castle Doctrine" law basically does three things:
One: It establishes, in law, the presumption that a criminal who forcibly enters or intrudes into your home or occupied vehicle is there to cause death or great bodily harm, therefore a person may use any manner of force, including deadly force, against that person.
Two: It removes the "duty to retreat" if you are attacked in any place you have a right to be. You no longer have to turn your back on a criminal and try to run when attacked. Instead, you may stand your ground and fight back, meeting force with force, including deadly force, if you reasonably believe it is necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm to yourself or others. [This is an American right repeatedly recognized in Supreme Court gun cases.]
Three: It provides that persons using force authorized by law shall not be prosecuted for using such force.
It also prohibits criminals and their families from suing victims for injuring or killing the criminals who have attacked them.
In short, it gives rights back to law-abiding people and forces judges and prosecutors who are prone to coddling criminals to instead focus on protecting victims.
A knife is a deadly weapon and the weight of the person wielding it, would make no difference to me. Anyone within 21 ft with a knife is certainly a deadly threat. When their knife comes out, my gun comes out.
If a reasonable person in your circumstances believed that the bad guy had the Ability, Opportunity and Intent to kill you or cause grevious bodily harm, then you would be justified in using deadly force, like shooting him. So I would say, yes, if he threatened you with a knife, and wasn't a block away, you'd be justified in shooting him, all other things being equal.
Knives are very deadly. I forgot which forum I saw it on but, they had a self defense video showing that if someone pulls a knife within 10 ft...you won't have much of a chance of getting to your concealed gun in time. I will see if I can find the vid.
If you assume that an attacker with a knife is not a deadly threat because he is 22 ft away, you have completely misunderstood the point of the Tueller drill.
If the attacker within 25 feet with a knife is me and you have not drawn yet - you are going down. Get some blue guns and training knives, practice with some like minded friends.
Individual coming at you with a knife, size doesn't matter. You are being attacked with a deadly weapon, respond in the same way you would if he had a gun. Neutralize the threat, hopefully before he reaches you.
1. A knife is always loaded.
2. A knife is always loaded.
3. A knife inside 21 feet is deadly threat.
A bullet affects a relatively small volume of tissue.
A knife can affect a very large volume of tissue.
A knife causes immense pain, fast, it causes major blood loss, fast.
A knife cuts tendons, nerves, muscle tissue, connective tissue.
A knife causes instantly demoralizing wounds.
There are few things as outrightly intimidating as naked steel at arm's length.
Is a drawn blade within 21 feet a deadly threat?
YES!!!
If you get within 15 Yards of me with a knife, I am more scared of you than if you had a gun.
The general rule is 7 Yards, but I find that way too close as the distance can be closed too fast. I've seen multiple knife attacks, and they are not pretty. The thing about defending against a knife is, you will get cut. The thing about defending against a gun is, you may get shot.
Personally I would take "may" over "will" any day.
In Utah I don't have to retreat. If my attacker is within 25 feet or so ( I am not going to take the time to measure the exact distance), my gun comes out, if he's moving toward me....BANG BANG and so on.
Keep in mind that the original Tueller drill stated that an out of shape adult male can cover 21 feet in under 1.5 seconds.
It wasn't an absolute court proof "measure 21 feet and shoot if he is within that range".
It was merely a demonstration that a knife wielding bad guy is a threat from further away than most people would imagine. That distance can increase or decrease based on your physical condition and speed and that of the attacker.
I know that Ayoob has testified in cases of a person shooting a knifer at further than arms length distances, but it would seem to me that those situations would be in the minority.
Contrary to what many believe, street punks are not so stupid that they announce their attack, so I believe that most serious knife attacks would begin at bad breath distance. So don't sweat the 21 foot rule too much.
Hello 911... I just shot a man who attacked me with a deadly weapon. Send the police and EMS!
The Tueller Drill, which I have done many times shows that 7 yards (21 feet) is actually too close for comfort. I'm in Biker RN's court as far as distance goes. I may not actually shoot them at 15 yards... but knives are just plain nasty and one false move on BG's part and I'm blasting!
The Tueller Drill, especially if you've performed it, just shows that at 7 yards they are on top of you like a monkey on a cupcake by the time you can draw and fire. As far as I'm concerned if they are within 15 yards or closer, you gun better be in your hand and pointed at them.
As a side note: my wife just told me of a call she ran when she was a paramedic in the field. Two women were fighting and one of them had one of those two pronged "meat forks." She stabbed the other woman ONE time... In the heart! DEAD! They could not save the woman.
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