This is a discussion on crisis averted - twice within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Blackeagle I don't think you did anything wrong. What I, and others here, are reacting to is what you said you would ...
it just simply seems as though there have been more than 1 post where someone had almost jumped the gun (no pun intended) this last week...that's all.
Like I said, we're not here busting your balls.
Guys I think these scenarios are great. They could be a learning experience for anyone who carries, especially those new to carrying. I have noticed quite a few situations given here lately where it seems like some folks are too ready to draw or brandish. We need to realize that our first responsibility is to retreat or get ourselves away from potentially threatening situations and only draw as the SHTF.
There have far too many news items lately where someone is using a firearm with out just cause or reason.
Easy guys. Sometimes the meaning or intent of a post can be taken differently than the OP intended.
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset
I'm very proud of how my pup behaved. He altered to the people, growled and barked, and then backed down on command. 5 months old.
This was my first situation like this. maybe it gets easier from here.
So in the spirit of giving advice, what seems to be missing in your scenarios are some more deescalation and disengagement techniques. Using the flashlight is good, as is telling him to back up, but these are fairly high intensity techniques. You may want to try some more sociable techniques first.
If you don't like the looks of someone coming up to you, change direction, cross the street, etc. If they change direction to follow you, then maybe it's time to try to disengage verbally. Use a firm, but calm voice and say something like, "Can I help you, sir?". If this is an innocent interaction, they'll probably explain themselves. If they were intent on doing you harm, then they were probably expecting to initiate the interaction and you've just thrown them off their game. If they ask you for something (money, the time, directions, etc.) say, "Sorry, I can't help you." If none of this works, then you can move on to, "Back off".
You can also use body language to get potentially threatening folks to go elsewhere. Stand erect, look at the guy but don't get tunnel vision, keep checking behind and to the sides to see if this guy has friends. Use the interview stance (body slightly bladed with your strong side away from the potential threat, weak side hand upraised with the palm out signaling 'stop', strong side hand hooked on your cover garment ready to pull it aside and access your weapon). Keep moving, periodically change direction to throw the guy off and disrupt his plans.
There are a lot of steps between regular social interaction and a drawn gun. With an immeadite deadly threat it may be appropriate to go directly from conversation to gunplay, but when dealing with potential threats like the one you described, it's important to know what you can do inbetween the two extremes.
I learned a lot of this stuff by reading John Farnam's Defensive Handgun book and training with him. If you're interested in this sort of thing, that's what I would suggest.
Thanks blackeagle. I'll see about finding that book.
One thing that occurred to me is that I left out a lot of action on the idea that some of it was understood. As this reads I'm drawing on the guy as he rides by. I'm not. There was a lot more thought and intentions before getting to that point. I suppose a better description would have been I almost told a guy to back off. 30 minutes later I see that this guy was a lot further from getting drawn on than I originally wrote.
Wow! Don't post 5 minutes after getting the crap scared out of you. :)
IMHO, as described, drawing a weapon would have been way over the line. There was no display of hostile action, or verbal confrontation. Certainly I could see having your hand resting on the grip IN HOLSTER, at the ready, but you appear far too quick to draw without serious provocation. You did not say that you were preparing to give a verbal warning, eg. "STOP - do NOT come closer", or perhaps attempt to distance yourself from the potential aggressor. "Castle doctrine" uses of force do not apply in public.Had he approached, or raised his hands the wife would have blasted him with the light. Then, and only then, would I have drawn my weapon.
My comment is solely based on the line I quoted above - what you actually did, however, was fine.
I don't want anyone to be discouraged from posting in the least.
Smith & Wesson M&P9cCrossbreed Supertuck
Nitecore EX10 R2
SOG Access Card 2.0
I keep thinking about this guy. We were well on our side of the road. The wife was almost standing in the grass. with me, her and the dog we were not close to the center of the road. he was in the middle of the road, really close to us. maybe he only intended to ride by closely. My wife had on a bright blue jacket, i had on a dark sweatshirt, and of course the dog is black and tan. maybe he only saw the wife and wanted to ride close to her and I scared him. Along with the dog. I asked the wife if I seemed close to drawing on the guy. She didn't think so. she said I talked to her the whole time, telling her what to do and where to go. Then, he slammed on the shoes. She says I took control of the dog and moved on. She says 3 seconds passed from the time I stopped walking until I pulled on the leash to get copper walking again. She felt like the guy was riding too close into our lane.
maybe that adds some insight.
I honestly feel(even though I can speculate all I want) that the guy was probably just afraid of dogs and panicked. By the OPs admission it was after dark and the dog didn't do anything till the man was about 20 yards away. I honestly feel that the guy wasn't paying attention and didn't see the dog until it growled at him and stopped however he could.
While it is a very good thing to be aware of our surroundings, we also need to remember that the sheeple don't think like we do and not every person or thing that is out of place is a threat.
Situation awareness, that part sounds good.
Little story: small town FL where I lived several years back. There was a harmess middle aged man that the locals called "the mayor". He was a special type person who could not get a drivers license so he rode his bike everywhere he went, all around the small town. It was common for the guy to see someone, stop, and start a conversation. Could very well have been you ran into someone just like that.
So again, situation awareness, you did good. Thanks for posting.