crisis averted - twice - Page 3

crisis averted - twice

This is a discussion on crisis averted - twice within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Hopyard There is a fine line between raw fear and justifiable use of force, but the elements which justify must be present ...

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Thread: crisis averted - twice

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    There is a fine line between raw fear and justifiable use of force, but the elements which justify must be present before use of force no matter how fear filled the situation.
    This is a very profound statement worth highlighting and repeating again. Which is why I did! Thanks Hoppy!
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."


  2. #32
    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIA45 View Post
    As he gets 20 yards out the dog sees him and at the same time the guy slams his feet down, not using the breaks. The dog barks slightly and the guy says 'woh'. At that exact moment I almost drew on him. If he had not said woh, like he was scared of the dog I would have seriously drawn on him and told him to back up. Crisis averted. No crisis to begin with
    On the way back down to the house I see two people coming. The wife things its the guy again with a friend. This time the GSD alerted on them much sooner. Turned out to be two women walking. Crisis averted again. Again no crisis

    Because we were aware of our surroundings and had a plan we were prepared for this guys ill intentions had he had any. The 5 month old GSD performed well, and as expected. Growled, barked and backed down when called to.

    comments?
    I do not see a single thing in your post that sounds threatening, your dog was loose and went towards the guy and he was scared. At that point you almost DREW on him? I do believe you will create a crisis with this type of ''crisis management'' you are using. Carrying means you have to be ready when need be not at every knee jerk action that happens in daily life. Not meant to be harsh, but do not over react.
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

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  3. #33
    Ex Member Array PNUT's Avatar
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    Based on the post, this sounds like excessive paranoia. It's still ok to be friendly in this world. I talk to strangers all the time, it's really quite nice.


    Here is a link to a great site for people with GSD's,lots of good advice and other stuff for training any kind of dog really but the guy is very famous for training GSD's and K9 dogs. I used some of his DVD's to train my knucklehead Boxers.

    http://leerburg.com/
    Last edited by PNUT; March 4th, 2009 at 12:24 AM. Reason: adding a link

  4. #34
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    It seems to me that maybe the guy on the bike came up on you and your wife before he realized it. It was apparently dark and he couldn't see much until he was right up on you three. I'd also think that the dog startled him, when he barked. Being an amateur bike rider myself I'd really prefer not to have any encounters with dogs.

    When he said "woh" I believe he was essentially telling himself to get stopped when he saw all of you, especially the dog.

    As usual this is one of those scenarios that I wish I could see on video.
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

  5. #35
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    WHAT CRISIS ? Do you have a therapist?
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  6. #36
    Member Array RIA45's Avatar
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    The crisis would have been me drawing on the guy.

  7. #37
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    Heading should read

    "Over-reacted twice,nothing happened."

  8. #38
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    About the dog

    I am not going to even bother with a reply to the situation as far as if you reacted reasonably or over reacted. That is totally up to you in your shoes at that particular time.

    I think from one of your follow up post that you were holding the dog leash. Stong side, or weak side hand?

    I would make a comment however about the dog. If you do get into a situation where you may have to take action, are you sure the dog would not be a hinderance? In other words will he NOT pull you down, trying to get to the other person? Can you maintain your control of him through the leash, can you draw and fire while he is jerking you off your feet, or do you plan on releasing him if the SHTF?

    Just some points to consider.

  9. #39
    Ex Member Array GreenHorn's Avatar
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    The only crisis averted here is that you did not draw on some innocent bike rider or two ladies walking, putting you straight to the pokey.

  10. #40
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    I'm going to first give you the benefit of the doubt OP. Why exactly did you automatically feel that this guy was a threat? The way I read your post makes it seem like anyone who gets near you is a threat. The way it comes across to me is you think about drawing on anyone you see. How are you able to be out in public? Maybe I'm being a bit harsh, but you almost created a crisis, not averted one. Since none of us were there, we don't know what your God-given instincts or "spidey-sense" as some like to call it was telling you. Perhaps if you were to elaborate more on that, more people would be able to understand what was going through your mind. Did something weird happen to you guys in this past month, or week, or that same day? That could have heightened senses to an extreme degree.

    I could walk down the street at 2:00a.m. by myself without a gun and feel no threat from certain characters walking by. On the other hand, I could be out in the middle of the day at a local store and my spidey-sense could be going through the roof. I could see a guy who one would assume was a thug and another guy who was well-dressed and "normal" looking, but I might be more concerned about him than the thug guy. That's having a calibrated "spidey-sense". All I'm trying to figure out here is why yours was going off? Maybe you guys should avoid walking after dark. That's not to say you can't handle it, I don't like it myself.

    None of us here are getting on your case by the way, we just want to fully understand things.

  11. #41
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I wasn't there but is it possible the guy was riding his bike and didn't see the dog til he almost reached you ,he sees the dog and abruptly stops cause he is scared of big dogs which would explain the WHOA exclamation.
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeagle View Post
    I don't know about Bama, but I'd like you to post. I just also want you to take seriously the advice that you're getting here.

    So in the spirit of giving advice, what seems to be missing in your scenarios are some more deescalation and disengagement techniques. Using the flashlight is good, as is telling him to back up, but these are fairly high intensity techniques. You may want to try some more sociable techniques first.

    If you don't like the looks of someone coming up to you, change direction, cross the street, etc. If they change direction to follow you, then maybe it's time to try to disengage verbally. Use a firm, but calm voice and say something like, "Can I help you, sir?". If this is an innocent interaction, they'll probably explain themselves. If they were intent on doing you harm, then they were probably expecting to initiate the interaction and you've just thrown them off their game. If they ask you for something (money, the time, directions, etc.) say, "Sorry, I can't help you." If none of this works, then you can move on to, "Back off".

    You can also use body language to get potentially threatening folks to go elsewhere. Stand erect, look at the guy but don't get tunnel vision, keep checking behind and to the sides to see if this guy has friends. Use the interview stance (body slightly bladed with your strong side away from the potential threat, weak side hand upraised with the palm out signaling 'stop', strong side hand hooked on your cover garment ready to pull it aside and access your weapon). Keep moving, periodically change direction to throw the guy off and disrupt his plans.

    There are a lot of steps between regular social interaction and a drawn gun. With an immeadite deadly threat it may be appropriate to go directly from conversation to gunplay, but when dealing with potential threats like the one you described, it's important to know what you can do inbetween the two extremes.
    Great advice regarding this post. My initial reaction to this post was similar thinking. There were other steps the OP could take first before drawing on the guy, just like the post quoted here. Carrying a concealed weapon does not give us the right to pull it out (I do understand the OP did not, but stated he was close to) whenever we feel fit. I feel like I need to be even more responsible now as a licensed CCW holder. I still don't assume every person is a threat, I am just a little more aware of what is going on. I would still be perfectly fine if a stranger came up to me to ask a question, I mean, I have done that plenty of times to others asking for the time, directions, etc.

    Anyway, glad you are safe. Keep up the awareness, that definitely is not lacking, my advice would be to take the advice of the quote above. Be safe and God Bless.
    I know what you're thinking, "Did he fire six shots or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself...you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk? - Dirty Harry

  13. #43
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    You might want to get some pepper spray as the 'go to' cure all, before you resort to the gun. OC washes away, bullets are permanent.

    Quote Originally Posted by RIA45 View Post
    I'm very proud of how my pup behaved. He altered to the people, growled and barked, and then backed down on command. 5 months old.

    This was my first situation like this. maybe it gets easier from here.
    Wow. I sure would like to see your dog alter to people. Just kidding!
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  14. #44
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Crisis Averted a Thousands Times Today

    Quote Originally Posted by RIA45 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    WHAT CRISIS ? Do you have a therapist?
    The crisis would have been me drawing on the guy.
    OIC . If that really makes sense to you.
    Today I drove to the big city Seattle 120 miles away from home. I avoided 172 crisis on the way there. I did not at anytime draw or fire on any of the cars that drove near me. At least 30 of those cars were within five feet of my car on several different occasions. Once we got to the city we stopped to eat at a restaurant I avoided a crisis with the hostess who came up on us abruptly and even touched my wife. I did not even think of touching my gun or she hers. We at our meal in the midst of at least 30 other people, without crisis. Than we went to the mall for an hour and half (my absolute mall limit, I HATE MALLS) I was surrounded by rude city people rushing all around me running up behind me and my wife. Rushing towards us and to the side of us kids screaming young mouthy punks all over. I avoided a crisis at least TWO HUNDRED TIMES. Not once did I draw my weapon, in fact I never even touched it or even thought about either of my guns or any of the knives I carry. I noticed that my wife also avoided a crisis at least TWO HUNDRED TIMES, not once did she draw her gun or even touch it. After that we went down town Seattle, than to eat again, than got on the ferry, stopped for coffee and than grocery shopped, before we got home. We must of had hundreds upon hundreds more encounters with other human beings and each time we avoided crisis by your definition because neither of us drew on anyone. In fact we must be saints because unlike you we did not even touch our guns or consider killing another human being.

    Maybe I should post a new thread daily about the crisis I avoid daily..... Or maybe I will keep doing what I have been doing for the last four or five decades and not consider every encounter with other human beings a threat or CRISIS


    Quote Originally Posted by merriam-webster.com
    Main Entry: cri·sis Listen to the pronunciation of crisis
    Pronunciation:
    \ˈkrī-səs\
    Function:
    noun
    Inflected Form(s):
    plural cri·ses Listen to the pronunciation of crises \ˈkrī-ˌsēz\
    Etymology:
    Middle English, from Latin, from Greek krisis, literally, decision, from krinein to decide — more at certain Date: 15th century

    1 a: the turning point for better or worse in an acute disease or fever b: a paroxysmal attack of pain, distress, or disordered function c: an emotionally significant event or radical change of status in a person's life <a midlife crisis>
    2: the decisive moment (as in a literary plot)
    3 a: an unstable or crucial time or state of affairs in which a decisive change is impending ; especially : one with the distinct possibility of a highly undesirable outcome <a financial crisis> b: a situation that has reached a critical phase <the environmental crisis>
    Really no offense intended consider therapy
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  15. #45
    Senior Member Array CR2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    OIC . If that really makes sense to you.
    Today I drove to the big city Seattle 120 miles away from home. I avoided 172 crisis on the way there. I did not at anytime draw or fire on any of the cars that drove near me. At least 30 of those cars were within five feet of my car on several different occasions. Once we got to the city we stopped to eat at a restaurant I avoided a crisis with the hostess who came up on us abruptly and even touched my wife. I did not even think of touching my gun or she hers. We at our meal in the midst of at least 30 other people, without crisis. Than we went to the mall for an hour and half (my absolute mall limit, I HATE MALLS) I was surrounded by rude city people rushing all around me running up behind me and my wife. Rushing towards us and to the side of us kids screaming young mouthy punks all over. I avoided a crisis at least TWO HUNDRED TIMES. Not once did I draw my weapon, in fact I never even touched it or even thought about either of my guns or any of the knives I carry. I noticed that my wife also avoided a crisis at least TWO HUNDRED TIMES, not once did she draw her gun or even touch it. After that we went down town Seattle, than to eat again, than got on the ferry, stopped for coffee and than grocery shopped, before we got home. We must of had hundreds upon hundreds more encounters with other human beings and each time we avoided crisis by your definition because neither of us drew on anyone. In fact we must be saints because unlike you we did not even touch our guns or consider killing another human being.

    Maybe I should post a new thread daily about the crisis I avoid daily..... Or maybe I will keep doing what I have been doing for the last four or five decades and not consider every encounter with other human beings a threat or CRISIS




    Really no offense intended consider therapy
    I once knew someone who shot at my dad's range back in high school days, and now he is in prison for MURDER and guess what he did... he shot a homeless man multiple times in the chest for stealing caned meat, he chased the man down and pumped rounds right in his chest! How sad is that, you lose your freedom over some senseless rubbish

    It's psychology really, put a gun in someone's possession and their behavior sometimes changes for the worst and sometimes not... just like a fast sports car. The people who scare me are those who change for the worst, they give responsible, sensible gun owners a bad name and ammo to those mainstream media types and politicians who would LOVE to see us all lose our 2nd Amendment rights.
    http://www.bloombergfightbackfund.com/
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