crisis averted - twice

This is a discussion on crisis averted - twice within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The wife and I went for a walk a little after dark and brought the dog. a few minutes into the walk a man on ...

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Thread: crisis averted - twice

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    Member Array RIA45's Avatar
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    crisis averted - twice

    The wife and I went for a walk a little after dark and brought the dog. a few minutes into the walk a man on a bike comes riding his way down the dead end. I see him and alert the wife, uncover the .45, and continue to walk. Just in case the guy is just out riding. As he gets 20 yards out the dog sees him and at the same time the guy slams his feet down, not using the breaks. The dog barks slightly and the guy says 'woh'. At that exact moment I almost drew on him. If he had not said woh, like he was scared of the dog I would have seriously drawn on him and told him to back up. The wife was prepared with the light to flash him in the eyes. Crisis averted. I pulled the dog and off we went. Watching our six.
    On the way back down to the house I see two people coming. The wife things its the guy again with a friend. This time the GSD alerted on them much sooner. Turned out to be two women walking. Crisis averted again.

    Because we were aware of our surroundings and had a plan we were prepared for this guys ill intentions had he had any. The 5 month old GSD performed well, and as expected. Growled, barked and backed down when called to.

    comments?

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    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIA45 View Post
    The wife and I went for a walk a little after dark and brought the dog. a few minutes into the walk a man on a bike comes riding his way down the dead end. I see him and alert the wife, uncover the .45, and continue to walk. Just in case the guy is just out riding. As he gets 20 yards out the dog sees him and at the same time the guy slams his feet down, not using the breaks. The dog barks slightly and the guy says 'woh'. At that exact moment I almost drew on him. If he had not said woh, like he was scared of the dog I would have seriously drawn on him and told him to back up.
    What possible justification would you have had for drawing on this guy?

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    Member Array RIA45's Avatar
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    He stopped abruptly, right beside us, then said woh, becuase of the dog. No justification, no draw. Hand didn't touch iron. Had he stepped off the bike I would placed hand on .45 and spoke loudly to back up. Had he approached, or raised his hands the wife would have blasted him with the light. Then, and only then, would I have drawn my weapon.
    Last edited by RIA45; March 3rd, 2009 at 07:50 PM. Reason: spelling

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    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIA45 View Post
    He stopped abruptly, right beside us, then said woh, becuase of the dog. No justification, no draw. Hand didn't touch iron. Had he stepped off the bike I would placed hand on .45 and spoke loudly to back up. Had he approached, or raised his hands the wife would have blasted him with the light. Then, and only then, would I have drawn my weapon.
    That's not really what you said in the first post.

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    Member Array RIA45's Avatar
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    I agree. I left a lot out on first writing. I'm glad you brought that out. So, how do you feel now?

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    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    Even in the circumstances you described in post #3 you could get charged with brandishing if you drew. One guy, in a public place, no visible weapon, no threatening gestures or verbalizations. How does this rise to the level where there would be a reasonable fear of the imminent threat of serious bodily injury or death?

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    Blackeagle, well said

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeagle View Post
    Even in the circumstances you described in post #3 you could get charged with brandishing if you drew. One guy, in a public place, no visible weapon, no threatening gestures or verbalizations. How does this rise to the level where there would be a reasonable fear of the imminent threat of serious bodily injury or death?
    Well said. There was no justification and it would have been a big mistake to draw or even just to let it show.

    There is a fine line between raw fear and justifiable use of force, but the elements which justify must be present before use of force no matter how fear filled the situation.

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    Senior Member Array CR2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeagle View Post
    Even in the circumstances you described in post #3 you could get charged with brandishing if you drew. One guy, in a public place, no visible weapon, no threatening gestures or verbalizations. How does this rise to the level where there would be a reasonable fear of the imminent threat of serious bodily injury or death?
    I agree... I think it would be hard to defend this sort of thing...
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    Senior Member Array BamaSteve's Avatar
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    Yeah, sounds like trouble to me. While it's good that you were alert to your surroundings, a guy 20 yards away stopping a bike quickly is hardly a threat.

    Even if you change your story and he stopped close to you, doesn't give a good reason to draw a weapon, unless he made some sort of threatening remark or gesture.
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    Distinguished Member Array pcon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeagle View Post
    What possible justification would you have had for drawing on this guy?
    I agree...someone past you on a bike turning into an incident where you feel a firearm should be involved sounds kind of like paranoia. I'm sure I'm going to be chastised for this comment. I feel like some of these "almost had to draw" topics lately could be avoided by people not being, what I would term, paranoid.

    With that said, it can be unnerving to be in the dark and feeling vunerable...

    I'm not saying...I'm just saying...
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    Member Array RIA45's Avatar
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    Your responding as if I drew on the guy. I didn't. No reason to defend my actions,all i did was run the scenario through my head. I feel like I did an OK job in my first 'scary' situation. Had I drawn on the guy I could see the criticism, but I think you're missing the facts.

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    Senior Member Array dnowell's Avatar
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    Something is missing here - you can't just draw down on someone because you feel funny about them with no clear reason. People have the right to bike where ever they want. Stopping 20 yards away isn't exactly mugging distance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcon View Post
    it can be unnerving to be in the dark and feeling vunerable...
    I didn't feel vulnerable. I was happy to walk by. He stopped 5 feet from left. As I think about it, He was awfully close to me and the wife. I wonder what he would have done had the dog not been there. Rode by? Stopped to question me for money, etc.. Robbed me? We'll never know. To say that I wasn't expecting him to stop his bike by putting his feet on the ground would be true. I use the brakes, but maybe he didnt' have any.

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    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIA45 View Post
    Your responding as if I drew on the guy. I didn't. No reason to defend my actions,all i did was run the scenario through my head. I feel like I did an OK job in my first 'scary' situation. Had I drawn on the guy I could see the criticism, but I think you're missing the facts.
    I don't think you did anything wrong. What I, and others here, are reacting to is what you said you would have done. None of the possible scenarios you described in the first and third posts justify drawing a weapon.

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    Senior Member Array BamaSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIA45 View Post
    Your responding as if I drew on the guy. I didn't. No reason to defend my actions,all i did was run the scenario through my head. I feel like I did an OK job in my first 'scary' situation. Had I drawn on the guy I could see the criticism, but I think you're missing the facts.
    I think everyone will agree that you "did" good, but the thought process was a little overstepping.

    I feel like some of these "almost had to draw" topics lately could be avoided by people not being, what I would term, paranoid.
    I was actually just thinking the same exact thing. Seems they have popped up a whole bunch in the past week.
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