Angry Dogs On The Trail...

This is a discussion on Angry Dogs On The Trail... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'm never without a firearm if I'm even near the woods, let alone strolling in the bush. Especially with a loved one in tow. Having ...

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Thread: Angry Dogs On The Trail...

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    I'm never without a firearm if I'm even near the woods, let alone strolling in the bush. Especially with a loved one in tow. Having said that, if a pup like that threatens me, it's history. That's why I always laugh at the movie CUJO. Me as the lead character: Dog jumps on hood, slavering on the windshield. I draw and fire thru the glass. Roll credits.

    Even on active duty in WA state, feral dogs were common and we were under standing orders to kill them on sight. These are critters lost by hunters who form packs and will attack almost any game. Worse, because they're raised by man, they have no innate fear of man and will attack a child for food. We used to jiggle together harpoon guns out of blank ammo and M16 cleaning rods and harpoon them when they'd come snuffling up to our positions in bivouac status. Fresh meat, yum. Beats MRE's every time.

    Once my uncle was on his own land in rural Virginia and he was bird hunting with a shotgun. Stumbled across his new neighbor, a recently retired yankee executive that hated guns and hunting. He's off his land and on my uncles. He starts hollerin' about how he hates hunters and then threatens to set his dog on my uncle! Uncle Gid (seriously that was his name. He's passed) says: Go 'head. Turn 'er loose! & racks the shottie. Said the guy turned yellow (how appropriate) and skittered away. Never saw him again. He called the local cops who yelled at him that he's lucky to be alive and that if he keeps on acting stooopid, that will be corrected. I think he sold and moved. To New York.

    Anyway, to sum it up: In the woods, consider ALL animals to be wild and act accordingly if they threaten you.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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  3. #32
    New Member Array Sod Farmer's Avatar
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    rottkeeper -

    Below is your quote:
    "Around here that would get you charged for animal cruelty as you were in no danger at the time. A vet will do it humanly if the animal has a problem."

    Are you serious? Are you telling me that if I lived in NY, I couldn't take my own vicious dog out and kill it without risking being charged with a crime????? If so I'm sure glad I don't live in NY.

  4. #33
    Senior Member Array Landric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rottkeeper View Post
    I am not a wimp just because I don't agree with the method used or for any other reason for that matter. I am more concerned about people botching the job and causing the animal to suffer or get away injured. You read your own reasoning into my statement. And I would not file charges as long as is was done in a decent and discrete manner but we know that some will have disregard for for that. If putting your own dog down was widely excepted I would hate to see the manner in which people would carry it out. I'm sure I will get flamed for this but so be it.

    I wasn't attempting to call you a wimp. I was saying that putting down a dangerous dog with a firearm is not in and of its self animal cruelty and statutes to the contrary are a product of our wimpy society that still wants the hard work done, but wants it to look easy and wants someone else to do it.

    I don't know you, and I wouldn't call you a wimp just because we happen to disagree on the topic at hand. I was attempting to point out that in the circumstances where a dog is dangerous it makes more sense for the owner to shoot it than to transport it to a vet where it has additional chances to endanger other people or animals.

    Obviously there are cases where people are going to abuse animals. Those people are going to do so regardless of laws. Requiring me to pay a vet $100 to do something I can do for $0.10 and put more people at risk to pay the $100 is just plain stupid. Making it illegal because some people will abuse animals if "allowed" to put them down makes about as much sense as outlawing guns because some people will misuse them.

    Can hunters in NY be charged with animal cruelty for shooting deer with the intent to kill them? If not, it doesn't make sense that they could be charged for doing the same thing to a dog. They are both, after all, animals.
    -Landric

    "The Engine could still smile...it seemed to scare them" -Felix

  5. #34
    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landric View Post

    Can hunters in NY be charged with animal cruelty for shooting deer with the intent to kill them? If not, it doesn't make sense that they could be charged for doing the same thing to a dog. They are both, after all, animals.
    But a dog is a domestic animal, deer are wild. Last hunting season I tried to take deer to the vet to have him put down the easy way but he refused to get in the truck for me.


    Sod farmer, depending on how you did it you may. If you took it out to the woods and dispatched it without incident no. But if you do it as the old lady in my other post did it, then I am quite sure you would be charged.
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

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  6. #35
    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    Exclamation My version....

    I was 18 at the time and hence could not have a handgun... Dad N myself were out for a walk down the old dirt road that serviced grandfathers house in the remote parts of Livingston Tenn.
    Granddad had always taught me to take a good stout walking stick when ever I went exploring or just for a walk... there was a reason for this logic but I always enjoyed something to lean on so it became SOP....

    On this lovely day the sun was shining brightly, and there was a pleasant breeze to keep us cool. Walking down the tree coved Tennessee red dirt road, Dad N I were about 1/2 mile from the farm house, enjoying the wonderful fresh air and were close to where a neat little sulfur spring crossed the road. There were old heavily weathered stake wood fenced fields, with their early spring grass cut short by grazing cattle it was quite picturesque.

    All of a sudden the quiet of the wind in the trees was broken by a pack of about 8-10 large vicious barking dogs. They had spotted us and came charging across the open field, in search of a easy target.
    Dad spotted them the same time I did and yelled"RUN!!" and made to do so... But me an 18 year old with a case of 'Super Man Syndrome" was not about to run and be mauled with out a fight!
    Grabbing my walking stick like a ball bat, I ran toward the lead dog, screaming a war cry so loudly I am sure I was foaming at the mouth. I had every God given intent on killing the lead dog with the first blow, then attaching which ever dog was closest next...
    Hearing my yelling Dad had stopped in his tracks and had turned around to see what was going on...
    At this point in time I am about 15 feet from the lead dog and still at full charge when the animal suddenly slams on the breaks, and I see fear in it's eyes and I am positive it can sense it's own immediate oncoming death.
    At this it yelped turning tail and ran like it has seen the devil, the rest of the pack did likewise post haste. Me I am left standing at the fence screaming at the dogs, I wanted their blood and felt denied!
    Dad had returned by then and calmed me down, after all it was still a gloriously beautiful day that was begging for a walk, so why waste it yelling at some stupid dogs that were close to out of sight...

    Fast forward to 3 years ago, I had just bought a 20+ acre farm. It was a beautiful day and My son N self were out for a little exploring of our new turf. With this land I had plans, Nice wooded area, 400 yard shooting range, hay field, neat old barn to rebuild, all of this was on the discussion list.
    Now there is a rule posted out there and that is you do not mess with a old man, they will just shoot you before they will take a beating...
    With that in mind I always and I mean always have my HK USP on my side, (and do now) we are walking our field when all of a sudden, a lone shape comes charging.... Red pit bull snarling, running, straight at us, by the time it is within 30 feet I have side handed my son behind me, drawn my HK and have a two handed bead on the dog, thinking "come one foot closer and you are one dead *******". Where the dog all of a sudden slammed on the breaks just stood there for a second, I am positive it can sense the outcome of this confrontation, it's death... suddenly it turns tail and runs like it was on fire.

    I should have shot and killed it on the spot and will never make that mistake two times in a row... Why you ask, because it came back a few weeks later and killed one of my daughters prize goats, and mauled her Llama so badly it eventually died... When it attempted to go after her she dispatched it with the .357 SW I had bought her for her 21st birthday, yeah she has her CCW and carries too...

    The moral to this story is if you run into any dog (s) that act vicious with out their owner present, they are a ticking time bomb, the provability that they will eventually attack and possibly kill is very high, deal with it before it can happen and you regret your lack of action.
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

  7. #36
    Senior Member Array Landric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rottkeeper View Post
    But a dog is a domestic animal, deer are wild. Last hunting season I tried to take deer to the vet to have him put down the easy way but he refused to get in the truck for me.


    Sod farmer, depending on how you did it you may. If you took it out to the woods and dispatched it without incident no. But if you do it as the old lady in my other post did it, then I am quite sure you would be charged.
    That is quite true, but cows, pigs, and chickens are also technically domestic animals (though not companion animals generally), and we kill and eat them all the time.

    At the same time, a feral dog or cat could hardly be called domestic despite its presence in the same species as animals we keep as pets.

    I have no problem with the lady in the incident you described being charged. Clearly that meets the definition of cruelty. Killing an animal in and of its self does not, regardless of the animals species. If the animals in your story had been deer, she would still be guilty of animal cruelty, its the intent her actions show, not the kind of animal that makes that determination.
    -Landric

    "The Engine could still smile...it seemed to scare them" -Felix

  8. #37
    Distinguished Member Array Anubis's Avatar
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    How to cope with an attacking dog is one of very few subjects that generate strong disagreements in this forum.

  9. #38
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    Carry OC Spray. It is extremely effective on dogs.
    It is a very humane and is a great non-lethal first option.
    I always carry it when I walk my dog.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  10. #39
    Senior Member Array David III's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    How to cope with an attacking dog is one of very few subjects that generate strong disagreements in this forum.

    I was just thinking that very thing. And I can't really figure out why. Must be some deep emotions regarding shooting dogs, I guess.
    But, I'll wade in with my 2 cents.
    If a dog is directly threatening me, I'll shoot it multiple times immediately. I consider any off-leash or out of a fence dog to be unattended, so I'm not looking for an owner.
    That makes me sound like a dog assassin, and while I have shot a lot of dogs (working on a cattle ranch, we had plenty of wild dog packs), I also have nine dogs at home right now, I've raised dogs for over 20 years and had 14 for quite a few years, seven of them Ridgebacks. So, I love dogs and have spent a great deal of my time around big, powerful dogs.
    That brings me back to the "directly" threatening me part. When is a dog doing this to me? I can't even remember the last time. I've pointed guns at a few over the past year, but I am very much used to being the master and I don't tolerate a dog trying to push me. They must pick up on that for whatever reason, because they'll back off or run away - and in one case, the big guy quit growling and barking, looked at me for a minute, then sat down and wagged his tail. Seemed like 10 pounds of dog biscuits later, he was my buddy.
    Dogs attacking are a real threat. Dogs not attacking are dogs.
    What am I not understanding about this issue?

  11. #40
    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    Carry OC Spray. It is extremely effective on dogs.
    +1 OC spray is my first option with a threatening, but not actively attacking dog. I have read that dogs respiratory system and eyes are much more sensitive to OC then people.

    If I believe the dog is actively or an immediate threat to injuring a person, out comes the Glock.

    A warning that dog owners (especially owners with big viscous dogs running wild) are not a pleasant bunch. After the dog is dealt with, keeping an eye on the owner is paramount. They will not be happy if you just had to dispatch "fluffy".


    check out this video:
    YouTube - Dog Attacks Officer

    one could always carry a concealed Anaconda...

    YouTube - Anaconda attacks dog

  12. #41
    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landric View Post

    I have no problem with the lady in the incident you described being charged.
    That is my only point actually if I have not been clear. I know there are a lot of botched attempts to do the deed. Just because I could not pull the trigger myself doesn't mean I think no-one else can or shouldn't be able. I am only stating that many are charged for cruelty for botching the job or doing it in an in-humane way. I live in farm area and this happens around here all the time, I have seen animals put down, my good friends are farmers I am at their home at least five times a week for coffee and to visit. I do not condemn those who can do it correctly, only those who can't.
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

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  13. #42
    Senior Member Array BlackPR's Avatar
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    I'm going to guess that you or your loved ones have never been attacked by a dog.
    +1... My step-son (now 19 years old), went through several plastic surgeries when he was 3 years old to repair his face after a grumpy, old family dog that never hurt a fly turned on him for no real reason other than being a grumpy old dog. 6 seconds and his face was largely removed, requiring many stitches and facial reconstruction.

    Think you couldn't kill a dog? Think again. Think you couldn't kill your own dog when it does something "my dog would never do?".... think again.
    The facts are indisputable. There is more data supporting the benefits of Conceal Carry than there is supporting global warming. If you choose ignorance, in light of all the evidence, in order to bolster your irrational fear of guns, you are a greater threat to society than any gun owner.

  14. #43
    Ex Member Array PNUT's Avatar
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    I wouldn't trust pepper spray to stop a dog intent on attacking. I had a Boxer,Duke, he loved everyone he knew, except for one particular mailman. I'm pretty sure the guy did something to him through the fence. Anyway, one day Duke went through a window after the guy,glass and all. The guy was spraying him and it didn't even make him stop for a second. The guy put his mailbag between him and Duke and used it to block him. If it had just been the spray he'd have been bitten. That dog hated that guy so much, we were going to the park one day and Duke saw the guy about a half block away, and jumped out of my vehicle window (it was down) and chased him up into the back of a truck. After that I got a P.O. box.

  15. #44
    Member Array AgeTurner's Avatar
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    Wow...this turned into more than I thought. Very Good though.

    I have no problem with people putting down their own dog if it is untrustworthy or has major health problems. I have not done it though. I also agree that it would need to be done in a way that is humane.

    I think the bottom line is we are Human Beings and we are more important than dogs. We can not reason with a dog like we can with people. One time a guy much larger than me picked a fight with me when I was in 7th grade. I reasoned my way out of it and ended up with only a bloody nose. Once a dog attacks, you can not reason with them. So they must be stopped before they attack.

    I can not imagine what it would be like to have a child of mine attacked by a dog. My heart goes out to those who have children who have been attacked by a dog. I would be more than willing to shoot any dog that is a threat to my children. When it comes to our kids we all should be willing to do whatever it takes to keep them safe. If that means shooting your 80 year old grandmas pet dog Daisy in front of her, by all means do it and do it well.

    I by no means think it is ok to abuse any animals. Folks who abuse animals should be punished according to the law. A few years ago a couple of kids tied a dog to a tree and shot it with an arrow. Then they left it there, if I recall correctly. That is messed up. But we should not be afraid of doing what we need to do to keep ourselves our loved ones and even strangers safe.

    I once worked with a gal who said she did not believe war was never justified. However she told me once that she would shoot someone if they ever broke into her house and tried to harm her family. This shows that even if you don't think you believe in something like war when it comes to the safety of your family you would be willing to do what you say you don't believe in.

    For those of you who might not feel that you could shoot a dog. The day may come. I personally would love to go all my days without having to shoot anything out of self-defense. But that said I would rather shoot a dog than a person in self-defense any day. I find it strange that someone might be packing heat out there with the feeling that they would be willing to put a human down but not a dog. After all we carry because we believe that we would be willing to make that call and shoot some BG in order to protect ourselves and our fellow man(that is an inclusive "man").

  16. #45
    Member Array Yamikaze's Avatar
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    Michigan recently pass a law saying we can legally defend ourselves against dogs.
    I do a lot of bike riding. I have been chased many times. I always carry when I walk or ride now that I have my license.

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