Situation over the past weekend (was I wrong?)

This is a discussion on Situation over the past weekend (was I wrong?) within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by rcsnpr I am offended by this Thread, And feel it needs to be removed....I posted in another thread where one day it ...

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Thread: Situation over the past weekend (was I wrong?)

  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcsnpr View Post
    I am offended by this Thread, And feel it needs to be removed....I posted in another thread where one day it just was Removed. I wrote the Mods and said
    “Was it bad language or was it a Troll as one poster said”. I was told a little of both. With the technology we all have at our disposal, Some poor child or “WoS” might stumble on this thread and be hurt in some way. I ask the Mods to Remove this thread in the interest of the OP…. By the way, Great story. And it scares me.
    ???? color me confused...

    What in the heck are you talking about? "Some poor child or ?'WoS'? stumble on this and be hurt? Please explain what you are talking about.

    You know, like it or not... Carrying guns is a serious business and this forum is here to openly discuss using lethal force in lawful defense of one's life!

    There's no sweet and nice way to discuss killing people which bottom line... That's what we discuss here.

    Yet, there are forum rules and Bumper and his crew do an excellent job keeping things in control, on target and as "PC" as humanly possible but still allowing realistic, frank and informative discussion instead of just fairy tales.

    That is what makes this forum the best on the internet and it is no small endeavor on the part of the administrator or moderators that this forum is as popular or as great as it is.

    I'm afraid you're going to have to elaborate on what you are talking about because I have absolutely no idea what you base your complaint on. (scratching head)
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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  3. #107
    Senior Member Array BradyM77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    ???? There's no sweet and nice way to discuss killing people which bottom line... That's what we discuss here.

    Yet, there are forum rules and Bumper and his crew do an excellent job keeping things in control, on target and as "PC" as humanly possible but still allowing realistic, frank and informative discussion instead of just fairy tales.

    That is what makes this forum the best on the internet and it is no small endeavor on the part of the administrator or moderators that this forum is as popular or as great as it is.
    )
    +1 Couldn't Agree With You More!
    "I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, you can't prove anything!" Bart Simpson

  4. #108
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snip View Post
    atleast in SC you can make a citizens arrest for a felony and steeling a car/motorcycle is a felony. so all you did was make a citizens arrest.
    Yep... same here. You would get a pat on the back from the Police and the guy would go to jail.

    You didn't do anything overt with the gun, you didn't pull it or brandish (showing it and making any threats with it) , etc.

    I would recommend going down to an auto parts place and buying a $30-$40 audiovox motion alarm and take the 10-15 minutes (at most) to install it. That prevents that from happening too. It works very well.

  5. #109
    Member Array novcdtshotz's Avatar
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    I Had a Xena motion-alarm disc lock on the bike at the time. The guy got that off no problem; without setting it off (I can't even get it off with the dang key without it screaming at me at 115dbs for a few seconds).

    Meeting tonight went well. Lawyer was not needed, but it was a comfort to have him there JIC. I'm clear legally. Got a few handshakes, and more than one "if you need anything, here's my cell number." My legal obligation is fulfilled in this incident; I'm no longer a part of the proceedings in any way shape or form.

    My company is TDYing me out of the state this weekend while I wait on word for my next contract deployment. They're sending me to a customer site FAAAAR away from here for a little while. I'm happy as a pig in dirty water at that.

    I'm sorry if I offended someone, but would like to know how? I know that my first post contained one language workaround, but as soon as I saw that the mods had edited it, I went back and changed it myself. I'm more than a little confused on that one, but hey .. to each his own right?

    Update on me; It's been a rough couple of days. Paranoia is at an all time high (worse even then when I've been deployed). I've had some trouble sleeping, have been jumpy and jittery. I stopped carrying today; and won't strap my holster back on until I get some sleep / ditch some of this paranoia. It'd be irresonsible for me to be carrying right now. Having someone point blank tell you that there could be a few thousand professional killers looking out just for you is a bit freaky. I can't take the chance that with that on my mind my judgement would be compromised and I'd do something stupid, so I hung up the leather.

    That brings up another point actually; a part or "responsible firearm ownership" that often gets overlooked. This is the second time in my life I've "hung up the leather" for a little while. Somehow, there are people who look at me crosseyed when I tell them that. Maybe it's just me, but I firmly believe that there are situations where carrying can be inappropriate, and right now, I'm in one of them. Personal safety aside, I'm not in any condition to be an armed citizen at the moment.

    I don't think it's fear that I'm experiencing right now; I'd liken it more to a calm understanding. Anyway, all that aside, I'm on the "up" side of this, and will be fine once I'm out of the area.

    On an unrelated note; I spent some "mad" money a few months ago on a Smith and Wesson M&P 9mm Spec Ops edition (uttely pointless, I know, but I was looking for a "novelty" plinker). To compliment it I ordered a Gemtech Tundra suppressor. I got word that it arrived at my FFL today, so tomorrow after work I'm going down to submit my paperwork +$200 the the BATFE and begin the waiting game. Once the tax stamp comes in / I take it home, I'll be sure to post a few shots up of the setup. (in the correct sub-forum of course!)

    Egh, it's late. Goodnight for now; I'll check back in a little while once I get settled in my new temporary digs.


    EDIT - Rcsnpr - I have no problem with this thread being left here. It will have very little impact on what could or will happen to me. I'd much rather have someone stumble across it and have the information available to them the next time something of a similar nature happens, and they think about intervening. History teaches that you are doomed to repeat mistakes if they are not analyzed bit by bit. I'm all for someone coming in here and taking a look at what my actions were and where they may have landed me.

    I'm not trolling; I'm a "new member" because I sought this type of forum out specifically to ask this question / relay this event. Sorry if I offended you, but I really have no idea how. I think I stumbled onto a goldmine with DC.com, and can think of no better place for something like this to be related.

  6. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcsnpr View Post
    I am offended by this Thread, And feel it needs to be removed....I posted in another thread where one day it just was Removed. I wrote the Mods and said
    “Was it bad language or was it a Troll as one poster said”. I was told a little of both. With the technology we all have at our disposal, Some poor child or “WoS” might stumble on this thread and be hurt in some way. I ask the Mods to Remove this thread in the interest of the OP…. By the way, Great story. And it scares me.
    Please, fill me in. None of us, staff included, have any idea what you are referencing. If you have a gripe, take it up with me personally by PM, but editorial comments are, generally, not accepted well in thread....


    Quote Originally Posted by novcdtshotz View Post
    I'm sorry if I offended someone, but would like to know how? I know that my first post contained one language workaround, but as soon as I saw that the mods had edited it, I went back and changed it myself. I'm more than a little confused on that one, but hey .. to each his own right?
    Don't worry about it, I believe it was an editorial comment meant to "get back" at us because of a staff action.
    Bumper
    Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.

  7. #111
    Member Array rcsnpr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by novcdtshotz View Post
    I EDIT - Rcsnpr - I have no problem with this thread being left here. It will have very little impact on what could or will happen to me. I'd much rather have someone stumble across it and have the information available to them the next time something of a similar nature happens, and they think about intervening. History teaches that you are doomed to repeat mistakes if they are not analyzed bit by bit. I'm all for someone coming in here and taking a look at what my actions were and where they may have landed me.

    I'm not trolling; I'm a "new member" because I sought this type of forum out specifically to ask this question / relay this event. Sorry if I offended you, but I really have no idea how. I think I stumbled onto a goldmine with DC.com, and can think of no better place for something like this to be related.
    I am sorry to everyone who was confussed by my cryptic post, apparently too cryptic. I do Not think you are a Troll. I am/was just concerened for your safety. I have PM'ed this to the Sysop. There was never any disrespect intended towards You or this Forum. I made a guess at the MC Gangs name "WoS" Once again Sorry for the confusion.

  8. #112
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    Thank you

    novcdtshotz:

    Thank you for sharing this incident with us. It takes a brave man to ask a question regarding potential legal consequenses.

    Each of us who read your posts is much more informed about how to handle a similar situation.

    I am also impressed that you know when to hang up the gun and get your mind aroung recent events before going back out with your CCW.

    Again, Thank you

    Capt. Art

  9. #113
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    Good Judgment

    I am sorry you feel that you need to hang up the leather for a while, but am glad you recognize your feelings. You serve us well by knowing your limitations and not getting into a bad situation.

    I have found that I am more cautious and patient when I carry. I think we have an additional responsibility when we carry a deadly weapon. Our judgment should not be imparied by alcohol, drugs of any kind, or our current emotional state.

    I hope you feel better soon and strap up. Until then, keep your eyes open.

    One other thing. I hope that anyone who has a situation where thay handle or use theri gun in public will share that story AFTER THEY HAVE WORKED OUT THE LEGAL ISSUES. What ever is written here can and will be used against you. (just like a gun is always loaded)

    That said, I learned from your story and thank you for sharing.

    Mike

  10. #114
    mkh
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    Quote Originally Posted by novcdtshotz View Post

    I stopped carrying today; and won't strap my holster back on until I get some sleep / ditch some of this paranoia. It'd be irresonsible for me to be carrying right now. Having someone point blank tell you that there could be a few thousand professional killers looking out just for you is a bit freaky. I can't take the chance that with that on my mind my judgement would be compromised and I'd do something stupid, so I hung up the leather.

    That brings up another point actually; a part or "responsible firearm ownership" that often gets overlooked. This is the second time in my life I've "hung up the leather" for a little while. Somehow, there are people who look at me crosseyed when I tell them that. Maybe it's just me, but I firmly believe that there are situations where carrying can be inappropriate, and right now, I'm in one of them. Personal safety aside, I'm not in any condition to be an armed citizen at the moment.
    I'm glad things worked out.

    I'm sorry that you feel you have to hang up the leather but I commend you on being responsible enough to realize the situation and do the proper thing. Hopefully you can put the leather back on soon.

  11. #115
    Member Array novcdtshotz's Avatar
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    Wrap Up

    As promised, here's the "closure" moment for my little situation here.

    I'm TDYing out of the area, cooling my jets for the next month or so while I wait to go back on contract. Not taking any chances at this point, putting as much distance between myself and this whole situation as I can. Once I got out of the area, I was able to really relax and start to mull over what had happened.

    My legal obligations are fulfilled, so I'll let go a few more details, and then call it a day on this puppy.

    Final 20/20 Hindsight Analysis: (knowing what I know now)

    I put myself in a very bad situation. I could have easily been injured, or killed; conversely, I could have easily injured, or killed. I got lucky, that's all that it comes down to.

    I was carrying safety on, 15 in the mag and an empty chamber. If I would have been rushed from 20+ ft, I would have been overwhelmed before being ready to fire. I now have safety on, 15 in the mag, and 1 in the chamber.

    The gentleman I was dealing with was a prior violent offender (of course, how the heck would I know that at the time right?). He had a violent record, and putting a screwdriver into my neck wouldn't have been too much of a stretch for him given his "past performance."He was in fact a "hang-around" for MS-13. Luckily, he wasn't a member (major WHEW). There's no real reason why he didn't go-for-broke on me; he told the police that he "just didn't feel like it" that day. (another huge WHEW).

    Now; what about what COULD have happened to me legally. By definition, I; 1) Brandished a Firearm, and 2) Kidnapped with a Firearm.

    Brandishing a firearm carries a mandatory minimum 7 year sentence.
    Kidnapping with a Firearm carries a 15 - 30 year sentence.

    -Would that have been worth it to protect my motorcycle? A thing? Absolutely not. Not a snowball's chance.
    -Would I do anything different if it all happened again? I don't rightly know.

    Lesson for the future? Do not intervene period unless there's the threat of bodily harm. I could have replaced my motorcycle; heck, AFLAC would have covered the cost of a rental car until I found another mode of transportation. I can't replace me ... had I been rushed, I'd have been done. If not me, he'd have been done. One way or another, if that had gone one iota differently, someone would have likely died. a) It wouldn't make me too happy to be the dead one, and b) Even if it was justified in self-defense, I'd have a hard time getting over taking a life like that, and in such a public place.

    Yes, I've heard the saying "when seconds count, the police are only minutes away," but I'd rather have lost that motorcycle than gone through one of those other two options.

    Sadly, I'm no longer a Virginian . Company has seen fit to relocate me while I wait to go on contract. All because of a stinkin' motorcycle...

  12. #116
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    I am very sad to hear about your relocation. Of course, we are thankful that you are alive and you have learned valuable lessons. Speaks to the theory that an unloaded gun, regardless of how close to loaded it is, is not much more than a piece of metal like a hammer would be. Except, as you learned, showing your "hammer" in a questionable situation can have bad outcomes for the perfectly law abiding good guy.

    But, the good things - you weren't physically hurt, you walked away. You still have your freedom to continue to walk away. You still have full capability to defend yourself. Hopefully mister multiple violent crime felon is sent away for good this time. He did get charge with attempts, correct? His charge should be considered as if he actually succeeded in committing the felony, because, had it not been for intervention, he probably would have got away with it.

    So, there are lots of things to be grateful for. I am going to bookmark your story for future one in the chamber arguments, if you don't mind. Hope everything else goes your way.

  13. #117
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    Great thread. Thanks for sharing and I'm glad all the legal issues worked out in your favor. After reading your 20/20 hindsight, a couple of things come to mind.

    -Know the laws of your state and determine if you are legally within your rights to protect your property and conduct a citizens arrest.

    -I don't know that I could walk away. All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

  14. #118
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    Thanks again for sharing a most informative event in your life.

    I appreciate the follow on posts which explain your "lesson's learned".

    Like you, I believe that was some scary stuff... all over a motorcycle.

    I've made it a point and decided long ago I won't take a life over mere property... but situations like that crop up at a moments notice and then Bam! You're right in the middle of it!

    Sometimes I don't quite understand the laws in Texas, (deadly force for protection of property) but sometimes it makes me wish I lived there instead of Missouri.

    Still I appreciate your candor in presenting this event and I am thankful everything has thus far, turned out ok for you.

    I hope you can relax soon and put this behind you. The sooner you get back to carrying the better because no one knows when or where the next incident will happen.

    Take care amigo and keep posting. We need good members like yourself here at DC.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  15. #119
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    Thank you for posting your story.

    You show an intelligence and ability to think far beyond what most gun carriers have, IMO. We are lucky that this forum has many members like this, with just a few Tactical Mall Ninjas.

    You learned some valuable lessons from this expirience and as they say, wisdom comes with expirience. Take care and stay safe.

    Biker

  16. #120
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    The guy was stealing your property, armed with a deadly weapon gestured towards you in a threatening manner that I am sure would put me in fear of my life. He is lucky he did not get clocked or shot.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

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