So heres the situation,

This is a discussion on So heres the situation, within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Wow. Tough call. I respect RetSupt's experience, but if my young kid is in there, I am going to make sure he is OK. I ...

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Thread: So heres the situation,

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array ExactlyMyPoint's Avatar
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    Wow. Tough call. I respect RetSupt's experience, but if my young kid is in there, I am going to make sure he is OK. I would call 911 and tell them I am going in to make sure my kid is OK. Especially, if I heard more gunshots. Would not have my weapon drawn, but I would look for him.

    OTOH, let's say you do go and in did find someone and he is shooting teachers/students and you stop him, or deter him, or prevent him from killing others. I find it hard to believe that you would be in trouble. It would ultimately come out that you were a parent of one of the children, law abiding and even though you had a gun, how could they charge you with anything serious? How could they send you to jail especially after the history of some of these other school massacres where you were trying to prevent worse damage. You are a first responder as the police are minutes away. I would pray that common sense, and not political expediency would prevail. But then again, I may live in a PollyAnna type world.
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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array usmc3169's Avatar
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    get on the phone with dispatch, give them a good description of myself and find my kids. If I see the POS that is shooting in the school I am not giving them the chance to off themselves. No one who hurts kids gets any sympathy in my book.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

  4. #18
    Member Array muddy's Avatar
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    Here in Utah you hope that a pistol packing teacher takes care of business.

  5. #19
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    I certainly understand the feeling of a parent...I'm one too, but you're not getting into a classroom...PERIOD!

    The 'armed' officer in the hall will not let you near the classrooms and your refusal to follow his directions will land you in cuffs.
    During a lock-down, no exceptions will be made...it has to be that way.

    You will be stopped and questioned. You will not be able to get your child from a classroom...good luck trying to find him/her. I work IN the school and would have trouble knowing where many of the kids may be from period to period.

    Can you imagine the 'cluster-something' that would evolve if parents were allowed to enter for their children while an unknown 'armed' presence were somewhere in the school.

    It would be like trying to assist with an armed robbery..."Hello officer, I see that you're trying to stop a robbery, I think I'll just help you and your fellow officers out...how do I get in there."

    I can't speak for any other school, but I know how ours works...you are not going to enter and be successful.
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  6. #20
    Senior Member Array usmc3169's Avatar
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    ret supt, you are operating under teh assumption that every thing would go the way that school planners train. what happens if the shooter starts in the middle of lunch when all the kids are out of class? what if the shooter kills a janitor or security guard that has keys to the rooms? I dont feel that I would even have a great chance of finding one particular kid in the school, I am more concerned with finding the shooter. When uniformed police arrive I will be the first person to lay down my weapon and prone out with palms up. The can clear me later. But until they show up I am going to do everything that I can to make sure that shooter is toast.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    I certainly understand the feeling of a parent...I'm one too, but you're not getting into a classroom...PERIOD!

    The 'armed' officer in the hall will not let you near the classrooms and your refusal to follow his directions will land you in cuffs.
    During a lock-down, no exceptions will be made...it has to be that way.


    .
    The armed officer in the hall will already be dead or in the middle of a gunfight. He won't stop anyone from moving about in the school.
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  8. #22
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    I think the time for teaching your child has past if they are in a school with an Active Shooter.

    Here's my thoughts and what I tell people:

    Escape & Evade if at all possible. I'd rather jump from a third story window and have lifetime back/leg problems than sit there and do nothing.

    Barricade if the previous isn't possible. Do not under any circumstances go looking for the shooter. Cover and concealment should be your thoughts here, IMHO.

    Hunker down and be ready to use all the force you can muster with any weapons at hand. Pencils, books and fire exstinquishers all make good improvised weapons. Be prepared to be brutal and give no quarter. It helps if your classmates are included in your attack, as one or two people against a gunman are, pun intended, outgunned.

    If I'm outside the school I'm not going in. I will watch the exits and report to 911 as I don't want to confuse the situation when the responding LEO's show up. I do understand a parent's inclination and instint to want to rush in and save their child, but in reality you are making the situation worse, not better.

    Do not think you are going to "help" the responding LEO's. You will just get in the way. Sorry to be so frank, but that's reality folks.

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  9. #23
    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
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    I will enter the building immediately and move toward the sound of gunfire.

    No armed guards or police are on campus at our school, and I'm not waiting until they arrive. In a minute or two, many could be dead.

    We have no automatic locking of the doors, but if we did, I'd rather at least one armed GG be on the inside while the BG continues to shoot, and while the police are on their way.

    I understand the different responses depending on different school situations and speed of police response. But I'm going in immediately. We'll deal with the legal issues after it's over.

    Do I increase my chances of being shot? Yeh, but that's not my concern. Right, I'm no good to anyone if I'm dead, but I'll do what I can to avoid that.

    I don't care if hypothetically I'll be an obstacle to LEO's once they arrive. It may be all over by the time they arrive.

    One thing I WILL NOT do is just wait around outside while people are dying inside, and hope someone else solves the problem.

    Whether I draw or not depends on how close the sounds are. I'll tell the other parent to call 911, but I don't want to be distracted with a phone call during the initial entering, especially if the shooter may be only a few yards away. I may call later, but not initially.

    Easy call for me. In fact, reading and thinking about this scenario is hardwiring in my automatic response to enter immediately and move toward the sounds of gunfire.

    As a parent, this is what I will do, regardless of whether it sounds smart, or whether it increases my chance of dying, or whether it complicates the job of LEO's once they arrive.

    It's a done deal. Thanks for bringing this topic up. I face the potential of this situation 5 times a week.

  10. #24
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    Do not think you are going to "help" the responding LEO's. You will just get in the way. Sorry to be so frank, but that's reality folks
    "The reality" is that I will have found the shooter and will either have killed him or been killed by him before the first officer arrives.

    "The reality" is that in the Sixties armed citizens helped pin down the Texas tower sniper while three officers and one regular Joe stormed the building and put an early end to that shooting spree. Regular folks with hunting rifles made the difference!

    "The reality" also is that 40 years later our citizenry has been fooled into thinking "You will just get in the way." Those Texans in the Sixties would not have let 9/11 happen and they would have stopped that VT idiot long before he murdered half a hundred people!

    I ABSOLUTELY HATE THE "I'M BETTER THAN YOU" POLICE MENTALITY THAT PERMIATES OUR SOCIETY! I'd go on and use harsher language but I don't need any more penalty points!
    Mark Twain:
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    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by grady View Post
    I will enter the building immediately and move toward the sound of gunfire.

    No armed guards or police are on campus at our school, and I'm not waiting until they arrive. In a minute or two, many could be dead.

    We have no automatic locking of the doors, but if we did, I'd rather at least one armed GG be on the inside while the BG continues to shoot, and while the police are on their way.

    I understand the different responses depending on different school situations and speed of police response. But I'm going in immediately. We'll deal with the legal issues after it's over.

    Do I increase my chances of being shot? Yeh, but that's not my concern. Right, I'm no good to anyone if I'm dead, but I'll do what I can to avoid that.

    I don't care if hypothetically I'll be an obstacle to LEO's once they arrive. It may be all over by the time they arrive.

    One thing I WILL NOT do is just wait around outside while people are dying inside, and hope someone else solves the problem.

    Whether I draw or not depends on how close the sounds are. I'll tell the other parent to call 911, but I don't want to be distracted with a phone call during the initial entering, especially if the shooter may be only a few yards away. I may call later, but not initially.

    Easy call for me. In fact, reading and thinking about this scenario is hardwiring in my automatic response to enter immediately and move toward the sounds of gunfire.

    As a parent, this is what I will do, regardless of whether it sounds smart, or whether it increases my chance of dying, or whether it complicates the job of LEO's once they arrive.

    It's a done deal. Thanks for bringing this topic up. I face the potential of this situation 5 times a week.
    Great post Grady! I feel 100% the same way.
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array Pikachu711's Avatar
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    Gunfire in a School

    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    Stay in your car, call 911, stay on the phone, and stay out of the building. Depending on the state your in, being in the parking lot with a weapon may be legal, entering the building isn't. When the police arrive they have a lot more things to worry about than a concerned parent with a gun. Don't complicate their job.
    Your suggestion is a good one. But I'll take it one step further.
    (1) Call 911
    (2) Tell person who answers you need the police
    (3) Advise the 911 dispatcher that you hear gunshots
    (4) Give the 911 dispatcher the name & address of the school
    (5) Tell the 911 dispatcher you are a CCW permit holder
    (6) Follow the 911 dispatcher's requests

    If you enter the school building without clearing it with the 911 dispatcher that may make YOU a suspect in this case. For all concerned follow the 911 dispatcher's directions. If you go into the school without first notifying the police you may be assumed to be the bad guy. Under the circumstances being a good witness for the police will help the arriving police resolve the situation.
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  13. #27
    Member Array halfcrazy's Avatar
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    Well in our little podunk town there are no armed guards. There are no automatic locking doors. Police response time is at absolute best 30 minutes but usually averages 45 minutes. So for me its easy as pie I am headed in and getting my kid period. I will do what i can to stop the shooter if possible because i simply wouldn't be able to live with myself if 20 kids where gunned down and i ran away.

    And to add to it i know my kids school inside out and would now right where she is if i just dropped her off she is in her classroom

    I agree that for the most part the Be a good witness thing is a great idea but for us in the sticks with police response time of 1hr plus. we need to alter our ways a little. For reference we called the state police the other night because our neighbor claimed someone was trying to kill him. Response was from 80-90 miles away he was 1.5 hours as he got lost out in the woods in our rural town

  14. #28
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    Halfcrazy, in your case it makes sense to go and try to deal with the BG. Here in Vegas all the schools go into "lock down" the minute something like this occurs. But you don't live in Vegas. In your case it's different if you're looking at a 30-45 minute response time. You should try to do what you can to locate this BG and getting as many kids out of danger makes sense. If it were my child and I were in your situation I would probably try to save as many kids as possible. Waiting while a BG goes about shooting innocent kids isn't an option. But, what you decide to do should be based upon the size of your community and the response time of the police. At times doing nothing but watching isn't the right thing to do.
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  15. #29
    Member Array halfcrazy's Avatar
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    Yes that's exactly my point responses to every scenario are different based on location if the school has armed police on staff it may be different but for us out in Podunkville things are a lot harder to answer. it isn't as black and white.

  16. #30
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    My Reaction

    1. Call 911.
    2. Stay on the phone - do not hang up.
    3. Enter the building with hand on weapon.
    4. Give a continuous running commentary on what you are seeing and hearing.
    5. Move toward the sound of gunfire.
    6. Try to identify and report location of threat.
    7. If possible, draw and stop threat; at that point notify 911 that you are armed.
    8. Assume the Active Shooter will continue to fire until they feel that the end is near.
    George H. Foster
    Orlando, Florida

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