So heres the situation,
This is a discussion on So heres the situation, within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; If I were a parent, I would rush in... Sorry to those that would rather leave their defenseless kids to face an armed perp alone...
March 15th, 2009 05:29 PM
If I were a parent, I would rush in... Sorry to those that would rather leave their defenseless kids to face an armed perp alone...
Police would be on the phone, and I would go in, family comes first!
March 15th, 2009 07:48 PM
This brings up a great subject. We all should be regularly spending time at the range practicing firing our various handguns one-handed. We have to practice with our "weak" hand as well. Don't focus too much on using the "weaver" or "isosceles" firing positing with two hands. There is no way of knowing when you may be forced to fire with one hand! Just a thought.
Vary your training to include right, left and two-hand firing exercise at the range.
"Gun control is being able to hit your target."
March 15th, 2009 08:22 PM
Suffice it to say, that people who are members of this forum and who have taken the step of obtaining a ccw permit already fit into a category of shall we say... Pro-Active People.
People are going to do what they are going to do whether it turns out to be right or wrong. Let's face it... Active shooters in a school setting historically score big where as the police tend to score on the low end.
That is not the police's fault per say and police departments all over this country have reevaluated their policies and plans post Columbine, and still incidents such as V-Tech have shown, it's not a winning proposition when you have an active shooter in a school.
I am not going to chastise any member of this forum who has a ccw permit, who already has a pro-active mentality about personal protection for going into a school to help save their child in the midst of an active shooter scenario.
I think everyone here knows they are going to have to deal with and live with their decision regarding what they do.
I, personally have a slightly different situation than most here because I am a member of our SRT team. I am also in a rural environment. I frequently drop off or pick up my granddaughter from school along with the kids of one of my co-workers if they are working that day on the ambulance, so I most definitely could be sitting outside the school when something like that happens.
In my case, I will be calling 911 and as soon as the first deputy arrives on scene, I will be entering the school with that deputy as a team. I would do my best to refrain from entering alone as we would work much better if there were at least two of us entering together. The response of the 1st LEO would almost certainly be in 1-2 minutes in my community. Back -up would be considerably longer. If I had my portable radio with me at the time, which I often do, I would be calling it in directly on the radio instead of a cell phone and would be coordinating with the responding deputy while they were enroute.
Again, my situation is different than almost everyone else on the forum but I certainly would not blame any member here for doing what they chose to do considering the gravity of an active shooter and the historical record of how those shootings end up.
Again, everyone here realizes they are going to have to live with their decision and know if they mess up, they will either die, or have a pile of legal problems a mile high. But who am I to say, stay outside and be a good witness when their child and other children are in peril, and one of our forum members can hear the screams and gunshots popping off.
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
March 15th, 2009 08:34 PM
I think this is a great scenario...and I like what you said Bark'n. It is very situational dependent on school type, whether security already there, what LEO support such as SWAT teams etc. If I could enter with a LEO, that would be great. But doubt in most people's cases, that option would exist.
Originally Posted by Bark'n
March 15th, 2009 08:40 PM
I go immediately in and get my children! Then we leave the immediate area and call 911.
ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!
"A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
March 15th, 2009 09:32 PM
Very solid post. Well said.
Originally Posted by Bark'n
"To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic." Ted Nugent
March 15th, 2009 09:41 PM
Well, here in Texas I am legal until I enter the building with a weapon. So if I can get a clear shot from outside the building I am fine. If I felt that circumstances dictated I enter the building I think I would have to rely on my fellow Texans sense of justice and the "He needed killing" defense.
Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis
March 16th, 2009 02:02 AM
With the exception of the new building that went up after I graduated, I know my high school like the back of my hand. I'll use it as the scenario example for myself. When I'm back there and driving, I pass it on a regular basis.
Shots fired. I go into "SHTF mode." I call my City PD Lt. buddy and tell him "I hear shots in [X]HS. I'm driving, pulling over, going to help if I can. Calling 911. GET HERE NOW." I think we have a good enough understanding that no more needs to be said. He'd radio/call it in from his end while I called 911, parked, and started relaying information to the operator/dispacher.
My first instinct is my safety (coming from the "guy driving past HS" perspective). If there are repetitive shots, I'll try to locate where they're coming from by sound, relay the info, and get a better feel for it by sight or by going in. Honestly, it depends on specifically how it goes down.
This is a good reason to carry "sufficient" backup, whenever possible, be it 2 spare mags or ...whatever. Anything can happen to anyone anywhere, anytime. Be as ready as possible.
Depending on the dynamic of the situation, I may do things differently, but that's how I'd probably do it. My hometown is a smallish city with one PD and only 2-4 on-duty patrol officers at any given time. Sheriff rolls through every once in a while, but only on a good day (I've actually never seen them in all my 21 years there). I feel like I'd be the best one to do something if it HAD to be done right away and if I had the opportunity to.
In regards to the "CC on campus" issue:
It ceases to matter when the shooting begins. All bets are off. Sort it out later. Do what you can to protect yourself and others, as appropriate given the situation.
March 16th, 2009 02:05 AM
Originally Posted by mcp1810
March 16th, 2009 02:25 AM
I'm not saying the police don't do a good job with "situations." But the score and odds are stacked against them. The simple fact of the matter is that I couldn't live with myself knowing that my children and others are being murdered while I'm talking on a phone outside, just doesn't sit well with me.
In this type of situation, I consider the school just another building. Would your responses change if it were say a mall? Why? I understand that there may be consequences for my actions, but everything has consequences. You just have to look deep down inside yourself and see what you can live with.
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March 16th, 2009 11:16 AM
Im with Grady and timmy.
I live in a very very small community. The first gunshots were probably the bad buy shooting the single resource officer.
March 16th, 2009 12:09 PM
Evolving law enforcement theory is leaning toward the first arriving responder going in immediately to stop the threat. Since I am already 'on scene', and I know where my son goes in the morning, my only decision point is whether to rescue him or take on the shooter. In my rural area, the resource Deputy is only there every other day. If he is there, no problem, we graduated school together. If we meet up all the better. And as far as response time, the road Deputies will probablyh be the last to arrive on scene, behind the state cops and surrounding jurisdictions, so I'm sure my description and status as a good guy is going to get lost in the storm. I better neutralize the threat in the first few minutes so I can get my sheep costume back on quick. Also, half the teachers and most of the administrators there already think I'm a loose cannon, so I may likely be called in as the BG if they see me moving about armed or otherwise.
"Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18
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Paramedics With Guns Scare People!
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