This is a discussion on Real situation tonight - Weapons cleared holsters!! within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by elkhunter Okay, from the comfort of my computer chair with coffee in hand, I have a different perspective. As I read your ...
"Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."
Who is John Galt?
Well I am glad it worked out for you guys but I think you should have called 911 and let them handle it. Follow him with 911 on the line if you want to go the extra mile. Here is a senario for you: Lets say the guy was a off duty or CC guy and he was trying to get his drunk/drugged out kid back home. You guys show up armed, he fears for HIS life a gun fight takes place.......You see this is heading no where good. My .02
“The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.”.... Albert Einstein
G-d invented 911 for a reason.
Even if the lady had been screaming her head off for help, you'd be in an impossible position. It could still have been a trick.
From these statements, I can't tell if you are truly worried about the guy coming back or if you are hoping to get another crack at him.That worries me a bit as he might come back with an attitude one day. I might have a second chance with him!
I had no idea Robert Fitzgerald was God. I wish I would have known that before he died. I had some issues he could have resolved.G-d invented 911 for a reason.
Of course the Brits had 999 since the 30s, the New Zealanders had 111 since the late 50s, and Australians had 000 since the early 60s. 911 didn't come into play until the late 60s. http://www.911dispatch.com/911/history/index.html
Considering yourself to be defenseless is the first administrative step to becoming a victim.
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government" - Thomas Jefferson
"The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth." - Stonewall Jackson
Well, I'm not well-seasoned or anything, but as a recent sheep, I'll say this: Reading your account, I can see where your heart was in the right place, trying to save a potential kidnapping victim. And at least nobody got hurt. As for your actions, I don't know that it was the best way to go about it, things may have ended differently...and your safety is paramount to anything else. I was always told not to draw unless you plan to shoot, not to shoot unless you plan on emptying your weapon, and unless you plan on destroying whatever it is you're aiming at. It worries me because it could have only taken a milisecond for things to go from "tense" to "lethal" and "jail time." But I'm a really bad armchair quarterback, so YMMV.
I can't help but notice some of the scathing comments here, but some seem to have missed that whole beginning part about the choke hold. Being put in that situation myself, I probably would have done much the same thing, sans the orders to get out of the vehicle. My first concern would have been the potential victim, their status, and getting them away safely after 911 was already called. The aggressor can go about his business as far as I'm concerned as long as it doesn't involved continued physical harm to the victim.
To those who always insist on doing nothing...better be damn sure it's not my wife, sister, mother, etc... that you let some scum of the earth have their way with, because I don't want to go to prison for ripping your arms out of their sockets and feeding them to you for standing by and doing nothing!
-The Mist (2007)"My God David, We're a Civilized society."
"Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
I would probably have called 911 to report it, then "challenge" the guy to leave the woman alone but with my gun holstered and concealed. As soon as I saw evidence that it was a domestic problem, I would disengage immediately.
I know getting involved can be risky but I was raised to believe that good people help people.
I hear too much about the legal problems of getting involved.
My plan will always be to assess the situation and go from there. I don't plan on going in like Captain America but I can't stand by and watch a woman getting busted up by some guy.
So, you can leave my arms where they are.
fortiter in re, suaviter in modo (resolutely in action, gently in manner).
I once beat a guy senseless for hitting a woman. He went to the Hospital with blood pouring out of his ears. Only by a miracle did I not go to jail ,the woman actually changed the story and accused me of attacking him....even with all of that ,I'd gladly do it again. Like Paul G said above.
Good people help people.
When you do the right thing you have to believe that it'll work out for you.
Anyone who would watch and do nothing is less than human in my eyes. You may be "right" ,but it's at a cost of something that I wouldn't want to lose in myself.
Helping somebody out is one thing...going on patrol, acting like an officer, giving unlawful orders and then drawing a weapon when they are not complied with is completely different.
Perhaps the comment about 'maybe he'll have another chance at this guy' or the fact that they commanded the guy away from his vehicle through me off, but I still think the OP and his partner should have ended up in jail.
As always, YMMV.
There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.
Who is John Galt?
Here is my .02, I think you did the right thing. I would have stepped up also. The problem is to many people talk about steping up but don't. Yes It could have been a trick to get you away from the van. Yes it could have been a trick to case the store. But next time if you are standing next to a vehicle loaded with long guns, I think you you should have remained covered and taken out of of the long guns to help with the situtation. Any thought about having 1 loaded long gun while loading up the unloaded ones. CCW is great but nothing beats a long gun.
Good people help people.
I agree with the many that have opined the OP was very much out of line. We are not LE. We cannot command citizens to do our bidding at gunpoint. In Arizona, that action would rightly be considered aggravated assault, irrespective of whether the gun was pointed a the citizen.
This is exactly the type of behavior that is used as evidence by the antis to demonstrate their point. We ridicule the antis, but this action should not be condoned by responsible gun owners.
I can't 2nd guess what the OP did. I hope that if my wife was in the same situation and I wasn't around, that someone would do the same thing.
Tactically, I think you also did the correct thing: You separated yourselves from each other yet still kept safe lines of fire [towards the subject(s).
The fact that you were not arrested says you did the right thing.
Did the police ask the large man what he was doing in the vicinity [of the gun shop]? Maybe they were the ones who pulled the original break-in.
Just be careful, battered women very frequently will turn on their rescuers.
An armed populace are called citizens.
An unarmed populace are called subjects.
I don't think that the OP was right to draw a weapon but he did do the right thing by getting involved. We all have loved ones and I wouldn't let someone hurt yours, I would want the same from my fellow citizens if it was my wife,kid or other loved one in a situation.