Defensive Carry banner

Question scenario...

2K views 32 replies 30 participants last post by  Bark'n 
#1 ·
Here's a hypothetic situation I question:

Let's say you go with a loved-one to a new restuarant you've never been to before...and your carry (as usual). It's a nicer resturant known that's nicer than average. Upon arrival, there is no gun-prohibited signs, no alcohol advertising signs, and no bar that you know of.

You go in, and there is no evidenace of alcohol at all. You are 3/4 way through your meal and you see a waiter walk buy with a beer to serve someone. You NOW know they servce alcohol.

Of course, most people aren't going to jump up and go to the car to stash their piece. So you simply finish your meal, pay, and leave.

In the parking lot, you are assault by someone for some unknown reason, but it becomes a SHTF situation and you kill or injure someone.

The police come and want the story. The shooting occured in a parking lot and was justified...but if you say you were walking from the resturant, it will be known you had a weapon in an alcohol-serving facility...and that's a violation. You can't say you saw trouble and went to you vehicle for a gun, because not only is that a lie, but that shows you may have had time to get away if you had time to get a gun from your car.

Some people may say...you should have taken your weapon to the car as soon as you saw alcohol in the restuarant. If that's the stance, then say the assault happened as you were taking the gun to the car then.

Hmmmm???
 
See less See more
#2 ·
I don't have that problem here in Texas, so I haven't thought about it that much. The last thing I would do is tell a lie to the police. As soon as you do that, and they figure it out, they are going to question everything you have told them. Now your justified shoot suddenly became questionable.
 
#4 ·
same here, you don't want to complicate things with a lie, in a scenario like that you should be glad your still alive to deal with the outcome:comeandgetsome:
 
#3 ·
We don't have a problem with this in Florida either. You could have encountered the same problem with the BG when you took the gun to the car. Your best bet would be to be honest and not lie to the police which could result in a charge for doing so. Since there was no sign of a bar and a no guns sign the cops might let things slide.
 
#5 ·
Good question. I reckon' the Judge would have to sort that one out (unfortunately). Unless you get an officer that is REALLY understanding, and even then I'm not too sure.
 
#8 ·
Just be truthful with the LEO, that you were not aware that they served alcohol until you were about to leave. Your outside the restaurant so your legal in your use of your weapon. Think about it this way, if you told the LEO that you did something in the past that was not legal (speeding/public intoxication/violated the city leash law) is he going to arrest you for it? I doubt it.
Of course since it was the first time at the restaurant I find in difficult to imagine you didn't look at the complete menu and see their drink list.
 
#9 ·
I would tell the LEO NOTHING! Save it for the courtroom to decipher what was right. If you "admit" to the LEO that you were carrying illegally, that could/would be used against you in court.

I would quickly finish my meal and leave.

Also, I think it should be noted that you/others in states with laws like Ohio in this respect should know 100% if an establishment serves alcohol BEFORE going in.
 
#10 ·
If there is no 51% sign then why would you worry about it? Doesn't that mean that the company does not make more than 50% of their income on alcohol? So, you would be ok to carry in there? Atleast that is how I have read the law in TX!!!
 
#14 ·
He's........not.......in........Texas!

:twak:
 
#11 · (Edited)
This is why you need a lawyer.

There is also the doctrine of competing harms. Which is worse, breaking the law by carrying in a restaurant, unitentionally violating a law, or being dead or maimed by a bad guy?

State the basics, point out evidence and witnesses and then SHUT UP!

BTW: The "basics" are: "I was in fear of my life, He was going to kill me;" or something similar.

Biker

I am not a lawyer, didn't play one on television and didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night, or last week. Anything I type should not be considered legal advice, or advice at all. They are just common observations and lessons learned from over twenty years of carrying, shooting and handling guns.
 
#12 ·
Don't know any above average restaurants that wouldn't serve at least beer & wine. :rolleyes:
No restrictions in Mass in this regard, thank God or the wife would be crabbing about never eating out. :twak:
The two things to tell the LEO's, I feared for my life & I need to consult with my lawyer. :ziplip:
 
#16 ·
A good reason not to say anything to investigators is that your body will be doing about 150 mph following the adrenaline dump. You won't remember the details, you had tunnel vision, etc. Your best option is to politely point at that you were the innocent victim of an unprovoked attack, want to file a complaint against the BG and talk to an attorney before saying anything more.
 
#21 ·
Move to Texas or someplace else that doesn't have silly laws, then you don't have to worry about it.

Other than that, I believe that during the investigation it will be found that you were in the restaurant. Whether you try to convince them or have your attorney try to convince them, that you went to your car and then armed yourself after eating and then got back out of the car and had an altercation resulting in your shooting someone is going to be a pretty hard sell.

Your more than likely going to get burned for having carried your gun into the restaurant. Just be prepared to deal with that aspect. It probably will be the lesser of your worries in your state.

I'm really glad most of your concerns are of little concern to me here.
 
#23 ·
Missus Mac and I eat out often. Almost any place that isn't fast food or a family joint like Cracker Barrel serves booze. Sadly, in NC, I must disarm before entering if I want to be legal.

I was once caught off guard in a VA hotel lobby area while having breakfast and noted they had a bar that served alcohol at night in an adjacent room. All the bottles were locked up and no beer taps were visible as they only served bottled beers.

I felt I could make a case if need be, but finished my breakfast and left quickly. You do what you need to do.

One rule: if it's any type of eating estsablishment above a McDonald's or some AARP buffet, they likely serve alcohol.
 
#25 ·
I'd go to McD's and with all the cash that the nice restaurant saved me I would buy more ammo... If they don't allow my gun, they don't get my hard earned money.
 
#27 ·
Michigan Law is simple: "28.425o.amended Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions
to subsection (1); violation; penalties.
Sec. 5o. (1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from
licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:

A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where
the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises."

Now if you are going to a Medium to High class restaurant that dose serve Alcohol you are fine as long as it is NOT THE PRIMARY SOURCE OF INCOME.....So going to TGI Fridays, Red Lobster you should be OK just do not drink with dinner.

Then with the given scenario If the restaurant dose NOT have a sign stating NO FIREARMS you would be in the right and perfectly legal.
 
#29 ·
Michigan Law is simple: "28.425o.amended Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions
to subsection (1); violation; penalties.
Sec. 5o. (1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from
licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:

A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where
the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises."

Now if you are going to a Medium to High class restaurant that dose serve Alcohol you are fine as long as it is NOT THE PRIMARY SOURCE OF INCOME.....So going to TGI Fridays, Red Lobster you should be OK just do not drink with dinner.
Thats really neato, but we are talking about Ohio.
 
#28 ·
Where is there a restaurant that isn't adorned externally with things like golden arches and inhabited by irritating clowns that doesn't serve alcohol?

You have to presume anything above fast food serves alcohol.
If that is then against the law in OH, leave it in the car, or don't go.
 
#30 ·
"SIXTO

Quote: Originally Posted by Dark Wolf
Michigan Law is simple: "28.425o.amended Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions
to subsection (1); violation; penalties.
Sec. 5o. (1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from
licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:

A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where
the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises."

Now if you are going to a Medium to High class restaurant that dose serve Alcohol you are fine as long as it is NOT THE PRIMARY SOURCE OF INCOME.....So going to TGI Fridays, Red Lobster you should be OK just do not drink with dinner.

Thats really neato, but we are talking about Ohio."

Ok Show me where in the Original post he said anything about being in OHIO....
 
#31 ·
Ok Show me where in the Original post he said anything about being in OHIO....
Read his profile on the left side of his post, under his username.

It says: "Location: Marion, Ohio."
 
#32 · (Edited)
How can you not see what I am saying.....I don't care where he lives...it is a scenario that could play out anywhere in the us....But I guess I just say this.....READ YOUR STATE LAWS....
 
#33 ·
Every states ccw laws are going to differ on the restaurant question. For example, in my State, violating a posted business is not a crime. If you are discovered to be carrying in a posted business they can ask you to leave. If you fail to leave and the police are called, it is merely a fine for the first offense.

Now of course other States do make it a crime so you have to be aware of your particular State's regulations regarding such posted businesses.

However, bottom line is you have the right to use lethal force to defend yourself from what you perceive to be a lethal attack.

After that is said and done, you are going to want to speak to your attorney. It is best to let your attorney handle those issues.

At least in my State, if it does become an issue post shooting event in the parking lot, the consequences should be no more than a fine for the violation. It should have no impact on the shooting event in and of itself.

JMHO YMMV

Always get a hold of your attorney after any shooting incident!!!
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top