SD scenario unarmed combat/knife experience?

This is a discussion on SD scenario unarmed combat/knife experience? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Have any of you ever used unarmed combat/knives in a serious SD encounter? Please provide details if possible. Thanks! United93...

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Thread: SD scenario unarmed combat/knife experience?

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array United93's Avatar
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    SD scenario unarmed combat/knife experience?

    Have any of you ever used unarmed combat/knives in a serious SD encounter? Please provide details if possible.
    Thanks!

    United93

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array psychophipps's Avatar
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    here's a post I put up on another forum a while back:

    I was a 19-year-old geek who grew up in a population 18,000 former logging town in Washington. The local idea of a fistfight victorys was simply who got a bloodied nose or lip first. Recently transported to Phoenix, AZ to go to school, I was the proverbial small town kid in the big city. I was at the Metrocenter mall down in that big arcade area on the lower floor. It's got this Huge escalator that runs down into it that is the only way into or out of it that I'm aware of.
    I was playing Street Fighter II and some teenage cholo rolls up and pops a token in to play me. I was pretty good back in the day and basically treated him like a $2 whore a few times before he starts talking trash. Not thinking anything about it, I was more than willing to exchange some pleasantries right back while I was upping the smackdown to $1 whore status. The last game, I think I actually hammered him down without looking at the screen once. Just smiled and told him what a punk he was right to his face.
    Well, he pushes me and I push him back a lot more. Must have outweighed him by at least 40 pounds. Tells me he's gonna beat my ass and me, being a complete idiot and having no frickin' clue about real life, told him where I'd shove that if he tried.
    Two hours later I'm bored and decide to head out into the night air. Now, Metrocenter has a door right by the arcade that runs into a giant parking lot. Plenty of potted plants and benches outside. Scoping the chicks and generally trying to not look like the complete dork I am, I'm not watching the doors behind me.
    Out of no where comes this gruff voice like this guy has been gargling with broken lightbulbs and Draino. "You dissin' my little bro, mano?" I look over my shoulder and I'm looking at my first real-life ex-convict. He's got tatted arms as big as my legs, a barrel torso from the crappy diet and a blue rag on his head. He looks at me after I turn, spits on the ground at my feet and is on me like a rabid pitbull on a Milkbone kitten.
    I manage to backpedal just out of range of his sloppy first punch, sidestepped and threw a weak left into his jaw. He grunted, turned and charged again with a brutal right hook to the ribs. I would have deftly sidestepped this second punch but that annoying bench poured into the potted garden got in my way. Stars and I'm on my back and not being able the breathe.
    This big ******* in on my stomach trying to throttle me and well, he's succeeding admirably. I choke up my shoulders and tense my neck as I try to bar him out with a stiff arm just like in japslapping class but those hands are like hydraulics, I can feel them in either side of my spine digging in between the muscle and sinew there. Red starts to creep into my vision and roaring into my ears, slowly edging in from the outside and I go flippin' berserk. After trying an eye gouge or three I switch tactics completely randomly. Every effort has been out until now so I grab his do-rag and pull him into me. Caught off guard, he falls towards me so I can get a good grip in his left ear. I twist it as hard as I can and pick myself up towards him until I can get within range of the one thing I hope another human being never has to do to save their own life.
    I bit into his face.
    Not a nip, a nibble or a taste. I bit about 3/4 inch or each side of his nose and dug in like a terrier preparing to shake a rat to death. Blood poured out of his wound and into my mouth and I heard the worst scream I can ever imagine coming from this guy as he starts beating on me to get me off of him. I'm getting kicked by his friends as I have now basically bearhugged to him while I was trying to gnaw his nose off of his face.
    Probably about 20-30 seconds into it I hear a voice amongst the shrieking from the cholo, his buddies shouting at me to let him go and the sound of the crap being kicked out of myself. " Get off of him, you ********! Mark, you gotta let him go!"
    Somehow the voice of my roommate Peter cut through the animal screaming like a banshee in my skull and I relaxed my jaw long enough to flop back onto the sidewalk, my face and neck slicked with blood. "Mark, we need to get the heck out of here!" Peter and Raul pick me up and haul me bodily as I stumble trying to keep up with them. They toss me into the back seat bodily and head out back to our apartment just off of Camelback and 7th street.
    As we drive they explain how they had checked the arcade and stepped out for a smoke when they saw this whiteboy getting the boot party. They didn't care until Peter noticed my goofy bahama shorts and yelled, "Come on, man! That's Mark!"
    I use Raul's t-shirt to wipe up as much blood as I can from my face and just about flipped out again trying to get my clinging to my skin blood-soaked t-shirt off. I started crying and told them to pull over at some random restaurant. I walked inside with blood smears still on my face and neck where the edge of the t-shirt had been and stepped into the men's room.
    Looking into the mirror after washing my face off I opened my mouth to see if I had anything missing. All my teeth were there and some careful wiggling told me that there weren't any loose. I breathed in deep and turned in a lunge towards the toilet were I must have blown out a good portion of my meals for the last 6 hours of so. I wiped my mouth, checked myself in the mirror and as calmly as I could manage stepped back into the restaurant on my way back to the car and home.

    Bottom line? Real fights suck really bad...

  4. #3
    Ex Member Array United93's Avatar
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    Thanks for sharing your experience.
    Escalating the situation with the perp's little brother was a big mistake - but I'm sure you know that already.

    I certainly agree with your bottom line, though I have had the good fortune of avoiding serious fights (SA played a big role, methinks).

    Out of curiosity, if you had been carrying a weapon (say OC), do you think you could have deployed it before he swung on you? Also, were you formally trained in unarmed combat at the time?

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    Yup. More than one. I just posted about one recently in the "Rookie" file. Although I was well armed, I chose not to use any weapons, so I guess that story would qualify for what you want to hear about.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Well, your story is really well written and I can relate to a similar experience in my youth, but it never reached your level of desperation. Just goes to show that when our back is against the wall, our survival instinct kicks in as we civilized humans are capable of horrific things. Personally, I’m proud of your actions, since that badass cholo may think twice in the future. I’m just imagining how his face looked, the next morning.
    Regards,
    “Monsters are real and so are ghosts. They live inside of us, and sometimes they win.”
    ~ Stephen King

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    Senior Member Array psychophipps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by United93 View Post
    Thanks for sharing your experience.
    Escalating the situation with the perp's little brother was a big mistake - but I'm sure you know that already.

    I certainly agree with your bottom line, though I have had the good fortune of avoiding serious fights (SA played a big role, methinks).

    Out of curiosity, if you had been carrying a weapon (say OC), do you think you could have deployed it before he swung on you? Also, were you formally trained in unarmed combat at the time?
    Not a chance on the weapon. Condition White and general situational awareness being nil, he talked to me, spit, and charged with me pretty well unaware until he spit (which is pretty universal for "something is going poorly here"). I barely stepped back out of range of the first roundhouse punch by about an inch with tons of telegraphing on his part. Had he thrown a good hook with good technique he probably would have dropped me right then and there. Going for an intensive motor action like prepping a weapon from my belt or concealment would have only slowed me down more.

    I had studied Chinese Kempo Karate previously for about a year. Basically American Kenpo and Kajukenbo mixed. Pretty brutal, nasty stuff with lots of eye gouging, grabbing ears, and groins, etc. along with joint attacking. Plenty of decent mindset training with the instructors always yelling for "More animal!" to help make sure that if we had to do the deed, we did it with feeling. I definitely think that it helped.

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    Distinguished Member Array Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    I beat the poop out of the neighborhood bully when I was in 4th grade. Does that count?
    Why Ike, whatever do you mean? Maybe poker's just not your game Ike. I know! Let's have a spelling contest!

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    Senior Member Array psychophipps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saber View Post
    Well, your story is really well written and I can relate to a similar experience in my youth, but it never reached your level of desperation. Just goes to show that when our back is against the wall, our survival instinct kicks in as we civilized humans are capable of horrific things. Personally, I’m proud of your actions, since that badass cholo may think twice in the future. I’m just imagining how his face looked, the next morning.
    Regards,
    Not to mention mine... I had bruises on my bruises with everything from pink, red, purple spots, to green edged black around the back of neck in the imprints from his fingers. No clue how he got enough hand strength to manage those.

    The funny thing about this story is that my Mom completely randomly had the feeling that she should give me a call right away as I got home. So I'm covered in blood smears, still wearing a soaked, too small maroon t-shirt of Raul's that is clinging to me and getting itchy as everything dries, have a towel with ice cubes in it pressed to my nose and lips to try to cut the swelling, and telling her that everything is just skippy and dandy in the happy land of Phoenix, AZ as the adrenaline wore off. She kept on asking, "Are you sure you're Ok?" and I'm trying to sound convincing while the headset is quivering in my hand and my lips are starting to swell up so she doesn't hop the first flight down and drag me home by my ear. Thank God she never saw my face for a while after that.

  10. #9
    Ex Member Array United93's Avatar
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    SIXTO - thanks, I'll be checking out your thread. BTW, I really enjoy all your posts!

    Doc - my OP stated ''serious SD encounter'', so no, it probably doesn't count:)

    psychophipps - congrats on staying so calm while the adrenaline wore off. I would probably not have done so well.

    United93

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    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
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    As a police officer dozens of times, as a citizen a few before I was a cop. Everyone needs open hand skills whether they believe it or not.- George

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    Member Array lionassad's Avatar
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    A year after I left high school I found a job at a local fruit market and some of the workers there were punks and like to start crap with other workers. They often intimidate new workers . Well one of the guys wanted to start a fight with me for no reason at all except to show me that they were tough. I had my ear phones on listening to music and also had a large knife that I was to cut the fruit boxes. This guys comes up to me and starts cussing at me saying he was going to kick my A$$ and do this and that to me. I looked behind him and I see his friends laughing because they sent him to start stuff with me. I asked him if he was serious and he replied by yelling more and that he was serious on kicking my A$$. I told him ok I took my jacket off and put the knife away and told him to make his first move. He didn't know I boxed for 5 years and took karate for 8 years. To make a long story short me and him fought and he ended up getting a broken nose, 8 stitches on his face and bloodied all over. After they stopped us from fighting he was yelling that he was going to go home to get a gun and come back to kill me. That never happened he never came back to work and his friends wanted to be cool with me after that but I never trusted them because I knew they were backstabbers. Even tough I had a knife in my hand I managed not to use it even when I was angry instead I used my hands to defend my self from this this punk.

  13. #12
    Senior Member Array psychophipps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mercop View Post
    As a police officer dozens of times, as a citizen a few before I was a cop. Everyone needs open hand skills whether they believe it or not.- George
    Truer words have seldom been spoken. I feel, as I'm sure that mercop does, that this applies especially to LEOs even more than it does to non-LEOs (which is a whole bunch). I can honestly say that I'm really tired of watching cop reality shows where the officers make the most elementary errors in unarmed defensive tactics.

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    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
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    Unless you have guns or knives surgically implanted into your hands every you have to start off every fight open handed. A problem that I often saw with too many officers is that they forgot no matter your size, time on the job or reliance on technology arresting someone will always require physical contact. Making a habit of selecting the tool before knowing the job causes task fixation and improper use. The gun is a hammer, for every one job it is good for it is the wrong choice for another 100. But if it is all you got then you are inclined to use it no matter what.- George

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    Ex Member Array jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    i've been in a couple of situations where i've used a knife for SD. the last, and worst one, had me getting jumped by three guys in a parking lot. i took quite a few shots before i could put some distance between me and them, and have a chance to get a knife from my pocket. i was lucky; one of them had a knife of his own, and another had a screwdriver.

    the whole thing probably lasted less than 5 minutes; i spent most of that trying to stay out of reach, while trying to not let them surround me. i used my knife as a shield, basically.

    lucky for me, someone called the cops when the whole thing started, and they got there pretty quickly. the final injury tally:

    one BG with punctured eye, one BG with 36 stitches and a ruptured spleen, one BG with a broken nose, and i got 18 stitches and a broken tooth. i spent 3 days in jail (it happened on a friday), but had all charges dropped. one of the LEOs involved urges me to stop carrying a knife for SD and get a gun and LTCF instead.

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    Ex Member Array United93's Avatar
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    I agree with you, mercop. As a future LEO (if all goes as planned), I really enjoy reading what you officers post here, and I appreciate your work to keep us all safe.

    BTW, I have a question: why do you call the weak side 'reaction side'?

    Thanks for relating your experiences, lionassad and jahwarrior72.

    United93

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