Safeway in Vancouver, WA. robbed at gunpoint Friday night.
This is a discussion on Safeway in Vancouver, WA. robbed at gunpoint Friday night. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I was driving past my local Safeway which I frequent often and saw 5 squad cars outside Friday night. I checked for the story the ...
April 12th, 2009 09:10 PM
Safeway in Vancouver, WA. robbed at gunpoint Friday night.
I was driving past my local Safeway which I frequent often and saw 5 squad cars outside Friday night. I checked for the story the next day and found it on The Columbian our local newspaper. Turns out a black male robbed my local store at gun point, and is still on the run.
My question is, If you were standing in the checkout line when right in front of you or say in the next checkstand over you saw a man with a gun pointing it at the clerk demanding money, what would you do? What can you do legally in Washington State? And would your actions change if you had your 6 year old daughter with you? In my state can I legally shoot a criminal who is pointing a gun at the clerk, cause I would want to protect their life as well as everyone else in the store, where are the lines drawn in this situation?
Thanks for any help/advise you can offer. I am going shopping tonight at this store, and have heard of 7 armed robberies in the portland/vancouver area just today. Is this bad economy and layoffs starting a mainstream criminal society or what? Is more crime happening in your states too? And Obama seriously thinks were all just going to give up our guns, the only equalizer we have against these criminals. Not me. Sorry getting off track, blood is starting to boil, will go make some ice water lol. Thanks again for any help in the abaove matter.
"These Sarah Brady types must be educated to understand that because we have an
armed citizenry, that a dictatorship has not happened in America. These anti-gun fools
are more dangerous to Liberty than street criminals or foreign spies."
- Theodore Haas, Dachau Survivor
April 12th, 2009 09:30 PM
I am making my self invisible. Unless the perp is shooting, nothing you can do will help out in the situation that you put before us.
Check out lane most likely will be full of people (not a good back-stop) and perp has his gun out and ready, so you will not get the drop on him.
An ounce of lead is worth 200lbs of cop.
April 12th, 2009 09:33 PM
Originally Posted by SleepingZ
The first rule of a gunfight: "Don't be there !"
The second rule: "Bring enough gun"
jfl (NRA Life Member/Instructor - GOA - IDPA - GSSF - ex-IHMSA)
April 12th, 2009 09:36 PM
Double ditto...especially with a six year old. Get him/her away as fast as possible.
April 12th, 2009 09:39 PM
If he's in another aisle and I'm not with my daughter, I may draw but I won't engage if he only wants money. I'll keep my gun out of sight until it's needed.
If my daughter is present, I'll turn and escort her toward the back of the store with me between her and the BG.
If he points a gun in our direction, my second and third actions will be to call the police and an ambulance.
April 12th, 2009 09:39 PM
Hopefully I am going to back out of my lane and position myself so that if the guy starts shooting at people that I will be in a position to fire. The scene at the convenient mart video where the guy in the white hat does nothing comes to my mind.
April 12th, 2009 09:42 PM
Uh...second action??? I can only assume 911 which is all encompassing.
Originally Posted by grady
April 12th, 2009 09:46 PM
If I'm by myself, most likely would not engage but would try to be as good of a witness as possible - staying out of sight - and perhaps move outside to get a description and plate number on the get away vehicle.
Of course, in such a dynamic scenario, the situation can change very quickly.
April 12th, 2009 09:47 PM
Yeh, I edited it before you posted.
Originally Posted by bandit383
What I mean to say is if a gun is pointed at us, I'll hopefully shoot in self defense, then call the police to report the BG and say I want to press charges against him. Then, and only then, will I request an ambulance for the perp.
It's a matter of priorities.
April 12th, 2009 10:39 PM
Assuming I'm in the "10 items or less lane" (my Kimber holds 7+1...so I'm OK)...I'm going to try and move both away and put 'stuff' between me and the BG.
This one I'm going to play by ear...I'd have to be there. I don't really want to be involved in a shooting, so if it appears that the guy gets money and is out the door...fine with me.
If the guy fires his weapon, then all bets are off at that point.
I hope he's paid little attention to me.
If he's within a few yards, he's going to develop some breathing problems, combined with a newly acquired migraine.
Speaking of this type of crime...each time I go into our local market, I look around going in, and I will pick the lane furthest from the door (even with a longer line) so that I can watch those coming in. When I leave, I go out the door looking both ways and scanning the parking lot. I keep my right hand free...
Stay armed...stuff happens when you least expect it...stay safe!
Proverbs 27:12 says: “The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.”
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
April 12th, 2009 11:24 PM
I am not a lawyer,
disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, do your own research in the law and how it applies to you:
If no one is actively being injured, I will try to exit as quickly and safely as possible. My hand would probably be on my holstered pistol heading toward the emergency exit by the meat department.
Originally Posted by chuck2780
Too many innocent people around, my fear of being shot or killed, and my fear of criminal and civil liability would temper my desire to stop them. If things took a turn for the worse and it was necessary for me to intervene, I would do so as swiftly and carefully as possible.
What can you do legally in Washington State?
Check out Handgunlaw.us for the correct WA use of force statues:
Chapter 9A.16 RCW: Defenses
I think your situation meets those 3 requirements:
RCW 9A.16.050 Homicide — By other person — When justifiable.
Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:
(1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or
any other person in his presence or company: the cashier
commit a felony or to do some great personal injury: armed robbery and threatening injury with gun
imminent danger: gun pointing toward cashier
All the reason more NOT to get in a gun fight. I am not a Law Enforcement Officer.
And would your actions change if you had your 6 year old daughter with you?
Yes, WA State law gives specific legal defense against "great personal injury" to a 3rd party. See RCW 9A.16.050 above. The "lines" are ultimately decided by the police, prosecutor, and jury so be sure you can live with the consequences if you decide to draw and fire. Based on my WA State knowledge and experience, I think shooting the BG would be justified in your scenario.
In my state can I legally shoot a criminal who is pointing a gun at the clerk, cause I would want to protect their life as well as everyone else in the store, where are the lines drawn in this situation?
April 12th, 2009 11:58 PM
That was some great info, thanks for taking the time to look that up and for your opinions.
April 13th, 2009 12:04 AM
Fortunately we live in a state that supports our gun rights and allows us to use them if necessary I think I would also try and stay invisible but if he started shooting or getting physical I think my mind would be quickly changed, if I had a kid I would tuck them real tight behind the counter if I felt they could not escape safely and move myself away from them.
It is true as the economy continues to slip more of this stuff is going to happen and it seems to be picking up rapidly.
April 13th, 2009 03:20 AM
In Tx we can come to the aid of a 3rd party,A lot depends on the situation,how many people in store,demeanor of gunman,am I off his radar.
"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
--Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .
April 13th, 2009 01:14 PM
This is a great point about which line to pick for another reason. The BG wants to get out as quick as he can so he will likely pick a lane nearer the door. Plus I need the extra walking so my IWB fits better
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