This is a discussion on What Next....? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; One of my son's friends and his girl friend were calling it an evening out at 2:00 AM one Friday night. They were parked in ...
May 20th, 2009 08:40 AM
One of my son's friends and his girl friend were calling it an evening out at 2:00 AM one Friday night. They were parked in a lot near a local bar and were just getting into his car when he heard some yell
"Hey Don't Move". he turned around to find two masked people walking toward them at some 20 feet with guns drawn and pointed at both of them. They were forced to lie down in the parking lot, thoroughly checked for valuables and the car ransacked all at gun point. Then the BG's told them to get in the car and drive away which they did, both unharmed but shaken up. The BG's were never caught.
So, with 2 BG's with drawn weapons walking toward you at + 20 feet at 2:00 AM in a mostly vacant parking lot are there any options ?
What Next ?
May 20th, 2009 09:18 AM
The more they try to do to defend themselves in the situation as written above lacking more details, the more risk they take.
They got out of the situation by complying. Good for them.
Bad for them that he/she were in condition white going to the parking lot. Excellent lesson for us all. That is one important key right there.
If we play pretend and say that son's friend has CCW, the best IMO they can do is get behind the car, draw and fire. And that is fraught with problems
They risk getting shot moving behind the car and potential gun battle. Does friend have extra magazine if he needs it - 2 guns vs 1. How many rounds in carry gun. Does female friend freeze under pressure or "go with" friend behind car. If she freezes, this is enormously problematic. There are so many variables, its somewhat silly to continue. At 20 feet, my idea is REALLY stretching it.
20 feet, two guns, friendlies surprised? Ick!
Some people are willing to comply, others with fight under any circumstance. Right or wrong seems like a subjective judgment to me on fight or comply in this circumstance. Personal preference for risk and threat assessment.
LESSON: In parking lot at anytime, especially at night, keep a hard yellow threat level. Always. Especially now in this worsening economic deflationary environment.
My 2 cents
May 20th, 2009 10:12 AM
TVJ said it all. It really does stink that we have to be on high alert always, closing time at the pub has been a dicey issue for a long time.But economic times being what they are we have to be careful where we are and at what time. We have got to be on high alert because times are tough for alot of people, and the wolves are out prowling for prey. I think we have to be very aware of what we are about to step in, and avoid if possible. I have some liberal co-workers that are maybe starting to get a wake-up call, with experences they had of late. They act scared that maybe the LEO'S and the government isn't so protective after all. Go figure! Please don't get me wrong we should not be prisoners in our on homes, but be careful and safe when stepping out. Remember evil really likes darkness. I'm glad your sons friend and girl friend is safe.
May 20th, 2009 11:28 AM
Lesson to be learned that has not been mentioned - don't leave the bar at closing time. Don't get yourself in that situation to begin with...
May 20th, 2009 12:02 PM
Something very similar happened to three of my friends ,they were in a parking lot behind a bar. 4 Bg's with masks on tried to rob them, they started fighting with the guys and they all got shot, one of them 6 times. They all lived, barely.
It's tough when the BG's have the drop on you, especially unarmed people, SA is so easy to overlook when you're having fun.
May 20th, 2009 12:20 PM
Several of my guys have had 'similar' experiences. Very tough situation. My guys pretty much had to comply (and they did).
TVJ said it best. Lesson learned.
"Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008
(Sometimes) "a fight avioded is a fight won." ... claude clay
May 20th, 2009 12:38 PM
I hate this garbage. Why can't everyone behave and play nice?
What if one of those BGs wanted to "aggressively" search your date? Or, take her off to the back of the building?
No way to win in this situation. I hope that this couple made a report and followed up (so that this might not happen to others in the area)
It all turned out relatively well ONLY BECAUSE the BGs weren't that stupid. But, most BGs are stupid, otherwise they would "play nice with others"
Given the chance, I don't think I would like to draw on these guys with anything but a baseball bat. Gaping chest wounds are OK, but a couple of busted arms and legs will remind these idiots of their misdeeds whenever it rains.
May 20th, 2009 12:48 PM
To those of you that comment, I have a question and concern.
In these stories, no one carried.
If bad guy gets jump and finds out you carry, this presents an issue - as in I feel like I have more chance to get shot now that he knows than if I were unarmed.
I appreciate reading comments/thoughts on this
May 20th, 2009 12:49 PM
How far into the car were they? And which angle were the BG's coming from maybe he could have started the car and sped off? That's the only other option I really see. Thankfully they're ok and that's the most important part.
Protection is a responsibility not just a right.
May 20th, 2009 12:58 PM
Tough spot for sure. No way to say what might or might not have been a better response, but they did survive without bodily injury, so that's the bottom line best thing. Hard to deal with 2 armed BG at close quarters when caught flat footed. Only thing they could have done better was be more alert and aware of their surroundings and watch where they park.
May 20th, 2009 04:47 PM
It's too late by then. They've got the drop on you and there really isn't anything you can safely do at this point. If you don't have the gun in your hand when the trouble starts it's probably too late. What needed to happen to avoid this should have taken place before getting to the car. By this I mean have your gun in your hand, scan the lot before entering, and have someone keeping an eye open while you unlock and each enters the car. Close and lock the doors and get out of there quickly.
Originally Posted by xXxplosive
DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.
Certified Instructor for Minnesota Carry Permit
NRA Pistol and Personal Protection Insrtuctor
Utah Permit Certified Instructor
May 20th, 2009 04:56 PM
This was an absolute true holdup....let me try to fill in here a bit.
I failed to mention one of the masked BG's was a woman, like it makes a difference. They were near a University but not on college grounds but off in a town parking lot. The car was actually parked under pole lights, thats how they saw that the BG's were armed at + 20 feet at 2:00AM.
This was trully a bad scene even if he was packing a Glock 14 rounder .45acp and was able to get behind the car with his girl in tow. Maybe they (the BG's)would have retreated or worse one could have flanked him and his girl at the car. It's A Shootout....Anyway, you betya they were darn lucky just to loose only their possessions.
These types of incidents are not uncommon around college campuses today. The local BG's know the kids have some money and are not likely to be armed.
An easy mark.....the same with older people at night in Mall parking lots. It is absolutly surprising how many assaults take place on students around or near campuses going to and from classes in the evening by the local thugs at night.
May 20th, 2009 05:02 PM
Drunks are probably easy pickins...a bar after hours is probably a good place to get the drop on someone. They probably spent their cash on hooch and hoochies while in the bar though.
Speak softly, and carry a big stick.
May 20th, 2009 05:33 PM
I am glad they made it through the situation without injury.
While this goes against every fiber of my being, comply with thier commands until you have no other choice. If you would chose to draw, you and your date will most likely be shot prior to "breaking leather." You also have to consider how your girlfriend will react or not react. I doubt if they had talked about action plan, so neither of them had any clue how the other would respond.
While they did have the right idea to park near a light, it looks like that is where the SA ended. Walking out in a group can deter BGs.
Don't do things you don't want to explain to the Paramedics!
Stupidity should be painful.
May 21st, 2009 08:29 PM
The crime deterrence of a light doesn't even extend beyond its lens - unless it's 60+ lumens in the BG's beady eyes (drawn gun in hand notwithstanding).
Originally Posted by stevem174
Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
-Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)