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In defense of a family pet?

3K views 43 replies 36 participants last post by  czman2006 
#1 ·
This is another one of those what if scenarios that could play itself out in so many ways, but after reading the cat killer posts, and then some older posts about using your firearm to put down a pet I've been thinking about this:

If you were to discover someone killing your family pet, would you legally have the right to neutralize the threat? We're talking about an armed individual, whether with a blade or a firearm, attempting to kill your beloved family pet on your property. At the time you catch him in the act, it's only aimed at the animal, would this still be considered a deadly threat if it's not aimed at you currently or would you have to wait for him to turn his attention to you before you would have the right to defend?

I think in this situation, I would be hard pressed to not think of my german shepherd as part of my family, but I know the law would not think of it that way.

If you want a more direct example, let's look at this scenario:

You are coming home from work in the late afternoon or early evening, and spot someone dressed in all black on your front yard with their back to you, you notice a large knife in his right hand stained with blood. After a quick glance, you look downward and see your cat laying on the ground, covered in blood and struggling to breath. At this point, the guy has not noticed you yet. How would you handle it?
 
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#6 ·
Yup, knife or gun, if somebody has a weapon and they are close enough to use it, I'd be ready to fire. If it were my fog, I might use a command voice to get his attention, so I don't have to shoot someone in the back.:wink:
 
#3 ·
I have two dogs that are family! If they were compromised, I would instinctively defend them with reasonable force. If another animal attacked them, I would have no problem using my gun. However, if a person attacked them, I couldn’t justify the shoot.
Regards,
 
#4 ·
Property vs. Self-Defense...

I had a similar discussion with a local animal control officer. The word, at least in my city, is that pets are considered property, and that people are not authorized deadly force to defend property.

Now if that individual pointed the firearm at you, then you're obviously then authorized. In my city, if someone is within 27 feet of you with a knife, you're also then authorized deadly force.

Your last example, coming home to find someone has just butchered your cat, you'd probably be required to retreat to your vehicle and call the cops. Being ready to shoot while doing this would be advisable.

The thing the police repeatedly say is, "Can you ARTICULATE that there was a deadly threat posed to you and further that you tried an escalation of force."

Got pepper spray? Got Taser?
 
#33 ·
I had a similar discussion with a local animal control officer. The word, at least in my city, is that pets are considered property, and that people are not authorized deadly force to defend property.
Here you can protect your property from anything with the level of force required and force necessary to stop it. IF they have a gun.... well, it may or may not be justifiable. In my case, I'ld protect my dog.
 
#5 ·
Animal Cruelty vs. Defense of a Pet

Saber makes a good point. But consider this, the rest of the discussion I had with Animal Control was about my dog getting attacked someone's loose dog. If I couldn't articulate (there's that word again), that my dog was under attack (video, or fresh wounds), and if I injured the attacking dog, I could be held liable for 'cruelty to animals.'

Furthermore, that if I used my pistol against the attacking dog, then I'd be guilty of discharging a firearm within the city limits. Again, would have to articulate that I was in imminent danger. Without video or fresh wounds it'd be difficult.

Enter the Twilight Zone, to defend yourself and pet without legal hassles, you'd have to sustain some injury or be super quick with your cell phone video camera. I don't know about you, but if I'm getting attacked by a dog it's going to be difficult to think about my stupid video phone.

The only answer I could come up with is a taser or stun gun. That way the attacking dog has no injuries to be used against me in court, but was painful enough to have it break off the attack.
 
#7 ·
If you want a more direct example, let's look at this scenario:

You are coming home from work in the late afternoon or early evening, and spot someone dressed in all black on your front yard with their back to you, you notice a large knife in his right hand stained with blood. After a quick glance, you look downward and see your cat laying on the ground, covered in blood and struggling to breath. At this point, the guy has not noticed you yet. How would you handle it?
I would immediately get out of my vehicle and approach the individual so I could shake his hand. I hate cats!!!

J/K!

The way the law in my state is worded, property is property and it would be no different than if he were vandalizing your flower bed or shrubs although there would probably be cruelty to animals charges added to it. Now, at the point that he turns his attention to me, he has had an extremely bad day! If I'm in fear for my or another person's life, threat of great bodily harm to myself or another or sexual assault tp myself or another, I have the right to use deadly force. There is no duty to retreat while on my property (home, business, rental or land).

Sad to say but he would be in more trouble for backing into my mailbox than killing a family pet.

I still hate cats though!:tongue:
 
#9 ·
...If you were to discover someone killing your family pet, would you legally have the right to neutralize the threat? ...
Negative. Domestic animals are personal property, not persons. I'm pretty sure this one is good everywhere, but check with a local attorney: One is never authorized to use deadly force to protect personal property.

I have two dogs that are family! If they were compromised, I would instinctively defend them with reasonable force. If another animal attacked them, I would have no problem using my gun. However, if a person attacked them, I couldn’t justify the shoot.
Regards,
Exactly right. "Reasonable force" means that degree of force which is reasonably necessary under the circumstances, and not more.

As soon as he tuns toward me, I'm in fear of my own life, and he becomes a target.
Fear for your life doesn't get you a self defense plea - but a reasonable apprehension of an imminent serious bodily injury does (regardless of how you feel about it).
 
#36 ·
Sorry, but you're wrong.........

Negative. Domestic animals are personal property, not persons. I'm pretty sure this one is good everywhere, but check with a local attorney: One is never authorized to use deadly force to protect personal property.



Exactly right. "Reasonable force" means that degree of force which is reasonably necessary under the circumstances, and not more.



Fear for your life doesn't get you a self defense plea - but a reasonable apprehension of an imminent serious bodily injury does (regardless of how you feel about it).
In New Mexico and several other states the law is specific about you defending "yourself, another or your property". It has been done successfully.
 
#10 ·
Most states consider dogs and cats as property. Unless your state allows the use of deadly force to defend property you can't. Not positive, but I believe service animals may fall into another category.

Now if the person is armed and turns on you that is another ballgame.
 
#11 ·
Fear for your life doesn't get you a self defense plea - but a reasonable apprehension of an imminent serious bodily injury does (regardless of how you feel about it).
Fear of grievous injury or death to self or other humans is all I need in TN. If he has a gun or knife, and turns toward me intimating even a hint of intent my 9 is barking.
 
#13 ·
Fear for your life doesn't get you a self defense plea - but a reasonable apprehension of an imminent serious bodily injury does (regardless of how you feel about it).
That word "reasonable" is an important one.
Question is, will the DA or Jury think it is "reasonable"?

Ya gotta convince the jury that your use of deadly force was reasonable.

If a guy with a bloody knife turns toward me, I'm getting convinced of being in danger, if he proceeds toward me I AM reasonably convinced I am in danger. (BANG!)
If he runs away, I am not reasonably convinced, yet, but will stay at high alert.
 
#14 ·
Most people would find my 'rather large' Rhodesian Ridgeback a handful. Trying to hurt my pet, on my property, would most likely involve a weapon of some type.
Someone using a weapon on my pet, (probably also turned to me with said weapon...:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:), I will have no choice but to defend myself as I WOULD be in fear of my life.:yup::yup::yup:
 
#17 ·
Legal or not, the way I view it is that if they've gone through the effort to attempt to kill my dog on my property...I should view them as a threat on myself. Anyone with enough b@lls to attempt to take on a t'd off pitbull guarding my home and/or my family or self clearly has it in for me and I should therefore respond in kind so I'm not the one ending up 6' under.:icon_neutral:
 
#19 ·
1. My pet is on my property.
2. There is a stranger on my property.
3. Florida law says I can defend my life and my property, I have no obligation to retreat.
4. The stranger is holding a bloody knife and is standing over my dying pet.
5. The stranger has already demonstrated that he is here to do violence.
6. The stranger pointed the knife in my direction.
7. The stranger's next of kin will need to be notified.
 
#20 ·
Seems to me alot of people are forgetting there is only going to be one story that is told.... Mine and it would go something like this.... I pulled into my driveway and saw this guy standing over my dog with a gun in his hand I exited my vehicle and told him to drop the gun.. He refused and raised the gun and pointed it at me.. I felt in fear for my life and ended the threat. End of story
 
#21 ·
So long as pets are legally considered property and not equivalent family members, then one might have a difficult time explaining and justifying gunning down an attacker of property. However, if that same flayer of live beings was within dangerous distance of others while committing his sins, the equation would change. The moment he became an obvious threat to any human near him, particularly to me or my family, defense against him is then absolutely justified.

Seems to me alot of people are forgetting there is only going to be one story that is told....
... suggesting that something other than the truth should be told?

Well, that story (yours) will get added to the other, various ones from onlookers or passersby. Can't forget witnesses, and can't forget the truth of what occurred.
 
#22 ·
In my case, I live in a very rural area, so there are no discharging a firearm worries. If I come on someone attempting to shoot one of me canine family members, there would very likely be no witnesses. Thus, "when I drew my gun and yelled at him to "STOP"!, He turned the gun on me and I fired in self defense."A lawyer friend of mine once told me, "It's a lot easier to defend you if the other party isn't there to tell his side of the story."
 
#24 ·
Shoot or don't shoot

In Texas, you can use deadly force to protect your property, my pet is my property, hence, don't mess with them. Agreed, if the bg presents a threat to you personally, use the necessary force to stop the threat. Like the story on O'reilly last night, the store owner shot the bg an additional 5 times with a different gun after the bg was on the floor and no longer a threat. He is a murderer. Once the threat is stopped, it is not a "free for all" to shoot again and again.
 
#25 ·
When viewed as a threat to ones person then it is justifiable but not to protect an animal.

I worked a patrol K-9 and I was not justified to use force to protect the dog since he was considered a tool. However, if I was in on the fight then...
 
#31 ·
I thought a K-9 was considered an officer? I have been told by LE in NC if a criminal injures or assaults a K-9 they will be charged the same as if it were a officer.
 
#26 ·
If some nutcase is skinning a cat on my lawn? :ticking:

I'm thinking we are going to have words. Loud words. :aargh4:

If he doesn't stop and surrender or run away, immediately as in right damn now then I don't think there's a question of his being a threat. :dead:
 
#30 ·
My dog might legally be considered property but he IS my family and if you mess with him, you mess with me! Try to hurt my dog and you become a target, I'll deal with the consequences later -- after I feed my dog!
 
#32 ·
I had heard that too... years ago, somebody around here shot a police dog and I coulda sworn he was charged with assaulting an officer...
 
#35 ·
There are only two reasons I can think of to kill my dogs: to make it possible to attack me or my family, or to satisfy some strange urge of a psychopath. In either case, a response is required of the most extreme sort, and no apology required to either God or man.
 
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