What's Your Take On This?

This is a discussion on What's Your Take On This? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hi all. I just found this scenario on the web and wanted to post it here and see what everyone thought of it. I changed ...

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Thread: What's Your Take On This?

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    What's Your Take On This?

    Hi all.

    I just found this scenario on the web and wanted to post it here and see what everyone thought of it. I changed the location and names, but the entire scenario remains the same.



    So I just got back from a gun show in Fart, and had something incredible happen on my way back on I-X. To put it briefly we encountered a situation on the highway where I was actually put in a position where I drew my firearm on individual. Even though several times I thought I was going to see someone die in front of me, the situation ended without any shots fired, and no one got hurt. Iíll explainÖ

    My father, friend, and I were heading from Fart to Butthole on I-X this afternoon at about 7:00 PM when we began noticing a vehicle swerving a few vehicles ahead of us. We were only about 20 miles south of Fart when this started taking place. Initially though the vehicle was avoiding debris, however we noticed there was nothing in the lane, and the driver became more erratic. At that point the driver started driving in the left should parallel to the highway for a short distance, and then at high speed continued to head into the median. The driver continued speeding down the center of the median for about ľ mile, and then crossed over into the opposite lane, now driving against on-coming traffic heading north on I-X.

    As this was all occurring we immediately realized there was something seriously wrong and we knew we had to trail the driver and do something about the situation. We ended up slightly trailing the vehicle and stayed parallel on our side of the highway. In addition to us, another pickup truck was directly in front of us keeping pace with the runaway driver. While we were following the vehicle, I got my friend to get one of our AR-15ís and some loaded magazines out of the back of our Expedition, incase we had to force the vehicle to stop.

    Immediately when the whole incident started, my father called 911 and told the operator what was happening. My father informed the operator that someone was going to die, that they needed officers on site immediately, and that we were going to attempt to stop the vehicle. The operator began to argue with my father, and he ended up hanging up on them to focus on the situation. He ended up calling back, had more problems with the operator, and hung up right before things sped up.

    As the driver was driving against oncoming traffic, there was multiple times where we thought the SUV was going to plow head-on into another vehicle, and almost hit head-on with several semis. Amazingly the driver never even side swiped another vehicle. At this point we were now approaching the Scum River bridge, and amazingly the driver made it across without hitting anyone. At that point I looked over and noticed an un-marked SUV with red/blue police lights tailing the run-away vehicle. As the vehicle crossed the bridge, it began to stray back into the median, and stopped in a pile of bushes.

    As soon as the vehicle stopped in the median, my dad stopped our vehicle and we all bailed out with handguns drawn and approached the vehicle. The off-duty officer had stopped parallel to the runaway vehicle, and also had his handgun drawn on the vehicle. My dad however did not know that plain-clothes officer was in fact Police, and yelled to him to put his weapon down. The officer immediately identified himself as Police and flashed his badge. At this point I was standing to the rear of the vehicle slightly off to the left. My dad and friend then flanked around me and took up angle positions on the vehicle. I then moved to the rear of the vehicle and checked to see if there were any other passengers, and cover any problems from the right side. Fortunately the vehicle was mostly blocked on the right from bushes.

    The officer then proceeded to yell multiple times at the driver to get out of the vehicle. After no response, he switched to Spanish, and still had no response. He then attempted to get the man to exit the vehicle, and could not get him out. At that point my dad handed his 1911 to my friend, and pulled the man out of the vehicle as the cop and us kept a draw on the driver. From here the officer pinned the man, and I moved in to help pin him once he was secured.

    Once we had the guy down and pinned, the situation actually lightened up finally. He asked if any of us had cuffs, but since we didnít we simply held him for a moment until Highway officers showed up immediately on scene.

    It turned out that it was a 78 year old man that was drunk and blew a .15 when they did the test on him. He was almost completely incoherent when we pulled him out, and was in complete denial once he was in custody of the officers.

    Since I just got back, and everything is fresh in my head, I wanted to document what happened since it is still fresh. I have a lot of thoughts on it, however since it is late, and Iím still taking a lot of it in still, Iíll comment on it later. I am glad however that no one got hurt, and the worse thing that happened was a few scrapes and bruises on the old man that almost killed so many people on the highway.

    I do also want to add right now, that regardless of your beliefs, I believe that God will sometimes put you in a situation where you have the capacity to do the right thing. When we are put in those situations, it is up to us to act out of our own free will, and do the right thing.
    Boy, this one goes against the grain for me.

    Calling 911 and trailing the vehicle was the right thing to do. Thinking you are going to have to take the vehicle out and play "Mall Cop" on a highway is silly folly at best.

    To me, this was not a gun situation, let alone an AR situation. Hanging back and trailing the suspect vehicle was the proper thing to do, IMO. Getting out with guns drawn and attempting to solve the situation when you are ill-prepared to do so is opening up a can of legal worms that just isn't worth it IMO.

    The poster noticed that another vehicle was trailing the suspect vehicle too. Good observational skills. It could've turned really ugly at this point and both the off duty officer and Dad were fortunate. I am not so sure that I would be inclined to follow an order from someone that is not in uniform and pointing a gun at me. Especially since the poster and his passengers had no leagal authority to stop a ground squirrel, let alone a person.

    My solution: Call 911 and be a good witness. Maybe I would approach the suspect vehicle, but most likely not. I would also try to determine who the other person was from a position of cover. If he identified himself as a local LEO then it's his "show" and I will ask him what he wants me to do, after I identify myself. If it was a non-LEO then I would just take a position of cover and observe and report to 911.

    I fail to see where this is a rifle situation in any sense, unless they were thinking of attempting to shoot the tires out on the suspect vehicle. That would be foolish as well and create more danger to others and the suspect driving his vehicle.

    What do you all think. I myself think that in this case the poster was attempting to use a hammer to tighten a bolt, since a hammer was the only tool he had.

    If this has been posted here under another thread I apologise. I haven't seen it in this forum and I hope I changed enough locations that if the poster is a member here he or she doesn't feel that I'm attacking them, as I'm not. What I am attacking is poor tactics and intervention in to a situation in a manner that is not sound legally or morally IMO. It is not moral to create more danger to others and it is not legal for drivers to "take out" other vehicles in most situations.

    What's you all's take on this situation?

    Biker

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    While we were following the vehicle, I got my friend to get one of our AR-15ís and some loaded magazines out of the back of our Expedition, incase we had to force the vehicle to stop.
    Absolutely no call for a rifle at this point.

    My father informed the operator that someone was going to die, that they needed officers on site immediately, and that we were going to attempt to stop the vehicle. The operator began to argue with my father, and he ended up hanging up on them to focus on the situation. He ended up calling back, had more problems with the operator, and hung up right before things sped up.
    For a private citizen to even consider trying to forcibly stop another vehicle going down the highway, either with a rifle or their own vehicle, is the height of idiocy. This sort of thing is extremely dangerous even for police who are trained and equipped to do so. It's also dangerous to the occupants of other cards on the roadway.

    As soon as the vehicle stopped in the median, my dad stopped our vehicle and we all bailed out with handguns drawn and approached the vehicle. The off-duty officer had stopped parallel to the runaway vehicle, and also had his handgun drawn on the vehicle.
    Getting out of the vehicle is a bad idea at this point. Introducing firearms to the situation is even worse. There is no imminent threat of serious bodily harm or death here, hence no legal justification for drawing a weapon.

    The officer immediately identified himself as Police and flashed his badge. At this point I was standing to the rear of the vehicle slightly off to the left. My dad and friend then flanked around me and took up angle positions on the vehicle. I then moved to the rear of the vehicle and checked to see if there were any other passengers, and cover any problems from the right side.
    Even if there was justification for drawing a weapon, continuing to keep one drawn once you know the police have arrived is practically begging to get shot.

    Idiocy from start to finish. This isn't a situation that demanded a rifle, contemplating forcing a vehicle to stop, drawn weapons, or keeping weapons drawn after the police arrive. This is a situation that could have been completely dealt with using a cellphone. Call the cops, be a good witness.

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    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    What's you all's take on this situation?

    Biker
    I tend to agree with BikerRN on this one. A real "comedy of errors". I'd add that the drunk 78 year old was old enough to be half as stupid.

  5. #4
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    Wrong in so many ways...

    I think that there should have/could have been more than one arrest.
    OMO
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  6. #5
    Senior Member Array BradyM77's Avatar
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    Biker, where did you get Gecko45's new post at? I miss reading about his exploits!
    "I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, you can't prove anything!" Bart Simpson

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    Member Array akhimark's Avatar
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    Sounds like a load.

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    Distinguished Member Array Bunny's Avatar
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    Blackeagle nailed it.

    Also, I think they should move, their towns have frightfully silly names.

    ;)
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    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    A) I call BS.

    B) IF any of it is true, they need to lock those idiots up.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
    Albert Einstein

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    Calling 911, and following/watching the other vehicle is fine.

    I never read in that story any suggestion that they got the license plate number and/or gave it to 911?

    Considering using an AR-15 to stop the car is pretty much over the top, plus they were too active and involved when the vehicle stopped.

    When the vehicle stopped with the lone officer, I'd seriously consider stopping somewhere out of the way and safe, let the officer handle it, and me continue being a good witness and/or assist the officer if it was apparent he truly needed help.
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

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    Senior Member Array boscobeans's Avatar
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    This guy is beyond B.S. He earned a Graduate degree Phd. (Piled High and Deep).

    bosco

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    Senior Member Array Divebum47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miklcolt45 View Post
    A) I call BS.

    B) IF any of it is true, they need to lock those idiots up.
    What miklcolt45 said. BS. The tipper was that the off duty cop thought nothing of having civilians with guns drawn "help out". Ain't happening.
    "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"

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    Quote Originally Posted by miklcolt45 View Post
    A) I call BS.

    B) IF any of it is true, they need to lock those idiots up.
    +1 completely agree with this...

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    Senior Member Array digitalexplr's Avatar
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    I agree on the B.S.!

    OK back to the "scenario". The guy, friend and dad all bail, guns drawn and approach the vehicle in question. BUT, when they see another "citizen" doing the same thing, they tell him to drop his weapon???

    If this is true, these moron's need to barred from unsupervised use of firearms till they can show they have grown a brain!
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    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digitalexplr View Post
    I agree on the B.S.!

    OK back to the "scenario". The guy, friend and dad all bail, guns drawn and approach the vehicle in question. BUT, when they see another "citizen" doing the same thing, they tell him to drop his weapon???

    If this is true, these moron's need to barred from unsupervised use of firearms till they can show they have grown a brain!
    Not going to happen.
    To grow something you require sun, water, manure and a seed.
    They might find the sun (with help); if they stand outside long enough it will rain on them. The manure part is clearly already in their possession. Brain seed? Don't see it based on reported actions.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
    Albert Einstein

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    #1 IF he is LEO in HIS state & has badge in hand & hollers POLEACE you be rtter do as HE sais or your GOING TOO GET A TRIP TO THE DOWN TOWN HILTON Unless you have badge & are LEO J A F
    A Native Floridian = RARE


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