Should you draw your gun as a back up?
This is a discussion on Should you draw your gun as a back up? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Not sure why I thought this up, but I would like some opinions. This has not happened, but I am just trying to think through ...
June 11th, 2009 02:08 AM
Should you draw your gun as a back up?
Not sure why I thought this up, but I would like some opinions. This has not happened, but I am just trying to think through various scenarios.
I am a software contractor. Say I am at a customer site and meeting with a few people in a large conference room. I am carrying, but since I am not an employee, I don't even bother to ask if it is OK to carry on the premises so I am not even sure of the official policy. (Different thread) All of a sudden a "disgruntled" former employee bursts into the room with a very large knife and threatens to kill the manager who "fired" him. Everyone moves to make some distance. In the meantime, some one else in the room pulls his gun and takes control of the situation. He yells in a command voice to the disgruntled man to drop the knife. The guy is not obeying and starts making threatening gestures and moves.
At this point you have not drawn your weapon. That one guy seems to be have taken the lead in this situation. Do you draw your weapon as a back up?
Preparing for the Zombie Apocalypse or Rapture....whichever comes first.
June 11th, 2009 02:08 AM
June 11th, 2009 02:10 AM
In that sort of situation, it would be very easy for the guy with the already drawn gun to see yours and assume you are a threat.
June 11th, 2009 02:28 AM
It's hard to tell what I would do in that situation, but I do know my thought patterns and I think that my thoughts would be:
1) Maintain distance discreetly (meaning no quick moves) and preferably move with my back to the wall so nobody else can see my weapon.
2) Untuck my cover garment and free the butt of my gun (I carry IWB at the 4:00 position)
3) Rotate my body, so the knife perp can't see it the weapon (and nobody else hopefully)
4) Then I would let the first person that drew their gun run the show. I would not commit to clearing leather unless the unstable employee started to come around to my side of the room
Sounds good on paper...huh? I'd probably have wet my pants too.
June 11th, 2009 02:30 AM
agreed, while the other guy has the situation under control no, if somehow the situation started getting dangerous for anyone but the BG, yes.
Originally Posted by Blackeagle
June 11th, 2009 02:35 AM
I doubt very seriously that he employee with the gun drawn would mistake you as a threat if you too drew your weapon, pointed it at the person with the knife and repeated the command for him to drop the knife.
If the person with the knife was not responding to the employee who had already drawn down on him, maybe a second weapon, placed in a position to give him no room to manuver away from the employee with the gun drawn would be some incentive to back down, drop the knife and comply with orders.
Maybe not, I guess I would have to be there, but there is a strong possibility I would be backing up he guy with the gun.
Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
Texas CHL Instructor
Texas Hunter Education Instructor
June 11th, 2009 03:12 AM
I would have to say NO.
It would be best to run for cover in a situation such as this as a defensive measure. Call the police.
If you understand, things are just as they are... If you do not understand, things are just as they are....
- Zen Saying
June 11th, 2009 03:28 AM
For the lack of a better way to say it, you have no idea how "skilled" the other person with the gun is. He may freeze up if charged by the knife holder....Then the crazy guy now has a knife and gun....He may decide to shoot at the charging suspect and miss all of his shots.
I don't see why it would be a bad idea to draw as well. This way if things go south with the other guy who drew his weapon, you would be ready to take control.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Smith & Wesson M&P9c
June 11th, 2009 04:30 AM
If the company has a strict no weapons policy, you could be in trouble even if you did stop a threat.
You have no idea of the background or the weapon specs of the disgruntled employee. He could have a military background, which can put you at a major disadvantage if you pull a gun on him. If the BG is wearing level 3 body armor and has an automatic weapon, you could have an issue on your hands.
Cops arrive at the same time when you have drawn your weapon and they don't know who the BG is.
You have to use your best judgement and react in such a situation.
Aerospace Designer, Freemason, NRA member
June 11th, 2009 08:58 AM
distance from BG to other guy with gun? A guy with a knife can still take out a guy with a gun...even if it's mutually assured destruction. Many variations on specifics, but around my workplace, I'd be backing up the non-crazed coworker. If the BG charges, there is an increased chance of him going down before he sticks somone. Not that it matters, since I'm an unarmed sheep around here. (OK, never a sheep, but armed only with the tools I was born with, and sometimes a flashlight)
June 11th, 2009 09:48 AM
First of all, stay away from meetings at a U.S. Post Office...
That said, a meeting where violence is about to take place is certainly going to have lots of 'flowing adrenaline'...so voice your concerns and movements.
It sounds to me like someone is going to get hurt, and if you have no way to exit, you need to defend youself.
Hopefully, the first individual with a weapon will use it appropriately.
Question: If you were armed, trapped in a meeting, and attacked by an individual with a knife, why didn't you already have your gun out as quickly as the first individual (GG in the meeting) had his out?
Waiting to see how it's all going to play out could be your downfall.
"That I cannot do."
"Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks."
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
June 11th, 2009 10:18 AM
I would draw. If nothing else, just to back up GG#1. Think if the situation were reversed. A little insurance in that situation would feel pretty good.
"Mind own business"
"Always cut cards"
June 11th, 2009 10:51 AM
Since someone else has already drawn a gun and apparently has the situation covered, I'd say keep your hand on your gun, but don't draw. If the knife wielding person continues and the other carrier does not stop the threat you may be forced to. As someone else mentioned, presenting you gun in a tense situation may be perceived as a threat by the other armed employee and get you shot.
June 11th, 2009 02:57 PM
Move to a safe firing position, watch knife boy, and see what happens. I would not draw unless forced too...
To err is human.
To forgive is divine.
Neither of which is Marine Corps policy.
"It's all about shot placement."- David (Slayer of Goliath)
June 11th, 2009 03:18 PM
I'd say that since the BG is alone (did not take a hostage to take cover behind) and everyone has moved away, then 1 gun vs. one knife is great odds for the fella that already has him covered. So I wouldn't draw, but make sure I am in a position to do so if needed and aware of where the bullets would be traveling if they go through the BG or miss all together.
June 11th, 2009 03:33 PM
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