"Get in the car..."
This is a discussion on "Get in the car..." within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; "Two Valley men are behind bars today after a Flagstaff resident on his way to Wal-Mart to shop was kidnapped and robbed at gunpoint late ...
June 11th, 2009 09:49 AM
"Get in the car..."
"Two Valley men are behind bars today after a Flagstaff resident on his way to Wal-Mart to shop was kidnapped and robbed at gunpoint late Monday night.
According to Flagstaff police reports, officers responded to the discount store on the 2700 block of Woodlands Village Boulevard at about 11 p.m. on a report of a robbery. When an officer arrived, the male victim told police that he had just cashed a check from his employer for $2,400 and was about to go shopping when somebody in a black Hyundai yelled "yo" to him. As he approached the vehicle, he noticed a passenger in the back seat with a handgun.
The passenger told the victim to get into the car and the victim did. The passenger then "racked" the weapon, placed it on the back of the victim's head and demanded his money and cell phone. The victim gave up both items.
The driver pulled over near McConnell Drive and the passenger told the victim to get out of the vehicle. As the Hyundai drove off, heading south on Interstate 17, the victim memorized the license plate number."
This happened less than a mile from my house. The two BGs were caught about 60 miles down the road, and are in custody.
Some personal observations...
First of all, I would NOT walk up to a strange vehicle because some hommies said "YO" to me in the parking lot, particularly if I was carrying a large sum of cash.
Second, I'm NOT getting in ANY car I don't know. NO WAY!
The tactical solution (for me) seems to be exploding off the X toward the rear of the vehicle. I'd be drawing at the same time.
Now, do you shoot THEN, or wait and see if they pursue? I think you'd have a tough time articulating your life being in danger if you're shooting through the back or side window of a vehicle. This would be a "shoot while moving" scenerio, but if the driver floors it, the shooting better stop at that point. Correct?
Glock 22, NS
Glock 20, NS
Ruger MkIII bull-barrel
Originally Posted by Dal1Celt
June 11th, 2009 09:49 AM
June 11th, 2009 10:03 AM
In a parking lot full of cars...seems like it would be quick to find some concealment. Notice I didn't say cover.
move to concealment-draw your handgun and reassess the situation.
1.the fella in the back of the car is going to have to reaquire his target once you move out of his direct line of sight.
2. Concealment will give you time to get your pistol into play
3. Reassessing the situation is crucial. Once you move, did the stop the car and get out? Did they drive away? These variables have to be accounted for before you start blasting. What if they drove off and another black small car was coming down the same isle? You just popped rounds at a group of grandmothers buying food for the foodbank.
Going behind their car would be unsound IF you stayed there. They have a 3000 pound weapon you just put yourself into the line of fire with. The toss it into reverse and run you over.
Sideways movement to the rear, get behind another car and then solve the problem if it still exists.
"If I was an extremist, our founding fathers would all be extremists," he said. "Without them, we wouldn't have our independence. We'd be a disarmed British system of feudal subjectivity."
June 11th, 2009 10:04 AM
That car is a deadly weapon, if you go to the rear of it, they can easily put it in reverse and use it as a weapon. I personally would draw as soon as I see the armed passenger, and move diagonally bakwards (both to the left and right).
I agree that I am NOT getting into that car, and not even approaching it. When they first say "yo" to me, I ignore and start moving away from them quickly toward my car or other closer cover.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
June 11th, 2009 10:08 AM
Your reactions are the proper ones to take. Someone yells at me, that I don't know, I'm not approaching their vehicle.
Originally Posted by BillR
Since I'm not going to approach their car, I'm definitely not going to get in it.
Get out of Dodge, putting as much distance and obstacles as possible between you. Drawing your gun is also a proper in my opinion. I wouldn't shoot unless they pursued me and I had no other choice. Remember most Walmarts have parking lot security cameras. If this scenario is picked up on camera it won't show what the people in the car have in their hands, nor will it have audio to hear what was said. All it would show was you moving behind the vehicle and shooting at it. The tape could be very damning in court considering the occupants of the car are going to swear they didn't try to abduct/rob you. "We were just looking for a parking spot when some crazy guy started shooting at us."
June 11th, 2009 10:20 AM
1. ANYONE yelling, "Yo!" to me is going to be ingored by me.
2. I watch any and all cars in a parking lot...I know who is moving towards me...I keep a very careful watch.
3. When attacked, even verbally, instant reaction is important...no time to think/say, "What the 'heck' is going on here?" Move away from the threat and become prepared to defend yourself.
4. If all else (thinking quickly and planning) fails...NEVER get into a vehicle. Your chances of survival will then be at the mercy of scumbags who do not value your life. If you're going to die anyway, it might as well be at the scene, taking the dirtbags with you. Hopefully, only the dirtbags will be taking the dirtnap.
Stay armed...be prepared, have a plan...stay safe!
"That I cannot do."
"Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks."
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
June 11th, 2009 10:41 AM
YO = GO... Especially after dark in a parking lot with a large sum of cash.
June 11th, 2009 12:01 PM
While I would also avoid approaching a car more importantly I would avoid this: "he had just cashed a check from his employer for $2,400 and was about to go shopping". What kind of unlucky guy gets robbed after cashing a $2400 check? Was he flashing it around or something?
If someone in a car pulled a gun on me, I would not be next to it since I did not approach it, depending on my surroundings I would be running as fast as possible on a slight diagonal until I was behind something substantial. Then I would draw my handgun. I am not the fastest draw in the west and if the gun is already pointed at me I am going to try anything else I can before drawing my gun. After a lot more practice I may be willing to move diagonally and draw my firearm but after having a gun drawn on me once I want to be really sure of my speed, accuracy and most importantly myself.
Before the comments come about this, yes if I do not have the proper surroundings or distance I will draw my gun since obviously I have very limited choices.
Is this going back more future than we were?
We don't react, we respond.
June 11th, 2009 12:07 PM
Note to self: Do not cash $2,400 check and go to Wal-Mart at 11 pm. Being out that late, with that much cash, creates too much of an opportunity. I agree with archer51 that you should definitely escape, find cover, and put as much distance/obstacles between you and the BGs. In this case--provided the report is 100% accurate--the BG didn't even have a round in the chamber. Not that you can count on something like that, but, it would have given the victim in this case that much more of a head start. It would have been possible to get out of a good line of sight and take cover/duck-and-run before the BG could chamber a round and put a bead on you.
All in all, drawing and firing upon a vehicle in a parking lot is a risky proposition and should only be considered if your life is in immediate danger. Going all wreckless will only add up against you in court. Train for good SA, avoid risky situations when possible, and react appropriately when necessary.
Last edited by jahshuah; June 11th, 2009 at 12:09 PM.
Reason: Reworded my terrible grammar
Sig P239, .357 SIG
June 11th, 2009 12:20 PM
Well so far I think this one that best,. I cannot imagine carrying $2400 in cash anywhere.. but then again what about credit cards? How did the BG's know he had that amount of cash???? Something sounds fishy,... Either way.. I wouldn't be getting in the car, I think they would have a hard time hitting you if you was moving out in the blind spot to cover,..
Originally Posted by sigmanluke
June 11th, 2009 12:24 PM
Let's re-write this story in a more probable way...
DRUG DEAL GONE BAD
After a drug deal went south, the intended buyer was robbed of his "buy" money...details at 11:00 PM.
June 11th, 2009 05:04 PM
drop to the ground and fire through the door.
They who give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Previously known as "cjm5874"
June 11th, 2009 05:09 PM
Bad SA on the part of the victim. Lack of common sense as well.
Originally Posted by BillR
1-I don't carry large amounts of cash
2-I don't shop alone after dark
3- I don't respond to "Yo"
4- I don't get into any vehicle with anyone I don't know, nor do I put myself in that situation.
Prayers sent to the poor sheep in this case.
Disclaimer: The posts made by this member are only the members opinion, not a reflection on anyone else, nor the group, and should not be cause for anyone to get their undergarments wedged in an uncomfortable position.
June 12th, 2009 08:37 AM
Why did they focus on him? They must have have known him or his situation somehow.
My name is not "YO" and while I might glance in the direction of someone yelling that I would have to guess they aren't addressing me so now I'm on the defensive for action in or near my surrounding.
Move, change directions, or just turn slightly and change direction of travel while watching for escalations in events and looking for cover, if necessary.
When called to a vehicle, even for directions, I most always change sides of the car before I engage in conversation. Kind of puts me in charge as they have to react to my repositioning and it gives you time to observe the suroundings. (No, I don't do this for friends and relatives).
June 12th, 2009 10:38 AM
They must have cased this guy or maybe the clerk who cashed the check was in on the gig? It couldn't have been too complicated because they got caught 60 miles down the road and didn't do anything to hide the tag on the car. Makes me wonder what smart theives get away with...72% ownership of GM, ACORN?
Desperate people do desperate things in desperate situations.
Heavily medicated for your protection.
Kimber Tactical Custom II, SIS Pro
June 12th, 2009 11:44 AM
Pull the pin and toss the grenade under the seat where he can't throw it back out of the car. Walk away.
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