4 on 1 gunfight?

This is a discussion on 4 on 1 gunfight? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; In NC you would have to really think about it, because if the guy was getting beat as a result of picking a fight, he ...

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Thread: 4 on 1 gunfight?

  1. #46
    Member Array NC Buckeye's Avatar
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    In NC you would have to really think about it, because if the guy was getting beat as a result of picking a fight, he wouldn't have the right to use deadly force and therefore either would you. If you didn't see the whole thing, for example you came across the fight already happen. Call 911 and sit back and watch.

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  3. #47
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob72 View Post
    If the guy on the ground was a known, close assosciate or family member of mine, the interaction would start with 1-2 of the beaters being dead, more if I was fast & they were slow- no words exchanged.

    If I don't know the down guy, and assuming I don't see anything giving me dissuading information, I'd drive on & call the cops. Most other people aren't worth my health & well-being.
    This is exactly my response.

    Some suggest avoiding 'bad' parts of town. Just curious, but how is avoiding and being ignorant of a beating (knowing they occur in 'bad' parts of town) morally different than witnessing the attack and doing nothing?

  4. #48
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    Just curious, but how is avoiding and being ignorant of a beating (knowing they occur in 'bad' parts of town) morally different than witnessing the attack and doing nothing?
    It isn't. But, if I knew...I might want to join in...

  5. #49
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    I would call the police and be a good witness. I am not a LEO and as a civilian I am not equipped physically or mentally to deal with 4 or 5 bad guys.

  6. #50
    Member Array mengel4228's Avatar
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    I would call LEO and Write down descriptions of the attackers. Some times being a good witness is the best thing you can do. Only way this would change is if person being assualted was family or a friend. In this case I would take the best avaliable shooting position and use loud and clear commands to get my point accross. If that did not work than God make my senses high and my aim dead on.
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  7. #51
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Something that some are not taking into account, at least in my experience, bad guys usually aren't really that good with guns (they don't practice their shooting much in most cases) .... and when they realize someone will shoot back, many run for the hills faster than a jack rabbit with their rear on fire.

    Then, some don't. So, just a point.

  8. #52
    Senior Member Array GreyGhost's Avatar
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    5 to 1 odds are not good. You just can't win. That only happens in the movies. I'm not playing this game. Not for someone on the street. Call 911 and get yourself out of there. I'll feel terrible later if the guy getting beat up dies but I won't feel better if I'm dead.
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  9. #53
    Member Array gotammo's Avatar
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    unless your the 5 on 1 your screwed and not in the good way.
    Leo is for that stuff not me.
    Why get involved in something you don't belong in.
    Maybe the person is getting Jumped into the gang and he chose the beating, don't know that's why there's 911.
    It's a bad part of town they should know better than to be out.

  10. #54
    Member Array Fisherman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billfromtx View Post
    I could not stand by and watch 5 guys beat someone...Right or wrong I would be forced to intervene. If they forced me to take it past verbal commands to stop and step back then its on them and I would do what was necassary at that time to ensure the my safety and the help whats left of ol' dude on the ground...
    Same here.
    I ain't what I otta be, I ain't what I wanta be, I ain't what I could be,

    But thank God, I ain't what I used to be,
    And, Praise God, I ain't what I'm gonna be!

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  11. #55
    Member Array Fisherman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grandma4 View Post
    While reading this and wondering just what I would do, another question came to mind that might would change the way I answer this.

    Suppose I was the one being beaten and you came to help me. And thennnnnn the big one. Suppose it was you being beaten and I arrive and am wondering if I should help you????? Gosh. Now I have to do all I can.
    That's what I was thinking. I don't care who it is. They're human and just as valuable to God as you and me. Find out later if the victim is a innocent or a hood.
    I ain't what I otta be, I ain't what I wanta be, I ain't what I could be,

    But thank God, I ain't what I used to be,
    And, Praise God, I ain't what I'm gonna be!

    II Cor 3:18

  12. #56
    Member Array homepcmd's Avatar
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    Not enough to make a decision.

    And I am surprised by some of the responses here.

    Now to add to a "dog" in this race...

    What if instead of a beating... it's a gang rape of what appears to be a young woman?

    I wonder if anyone here is going to ask if she is a "member" of some gang and "deserves" the violent criminal act... like how it seems like it's OK to ignore a beating cause it's "gang member".

    I am saying I would get involve?

    No. I would first try to use my car (turn on lights... honk horn... get "gangs" attention while still being in car with engine on).

    I would yell to report that cops on the way.

    I would have my wife on the phone with 911.

    If they run... OK. Count... then maybe (if it appears safe) tell wife to ask for medical help and go out to provide some minimal level of care (based on circumstances).

    If they run toward me... I would loudly advise that I am armed and have already called the cops.

    If they continue... based on circumstances... I would drive away and come back to them if they go back to beating the person. The idea is to engage them AWAY from their initial target.

    If it escalates to lethal force... I have both a gun and a car.

    Simple truth is that if four guys are beating (or raping) then they are pack animals and will more likely run then confront an interested third party -- most of the times.

    But I don't think that just calling the cops is enough.

    Don't risk your life but that does not mean don't engage.

    There are many ways to do both.

    Now what would you do if you HAD to get out of your car and walk two blocks to get to the "noise" and then find it's a beating or gang rape?

    What if it's coming out of an elevator in a high rise building and you "turn the corner" to see this... and one sees you?

    What if it's obviously young kids (12-16 year olds)? (happens in England right?)

    What if several are "old friends" of one of your kids? Or classmates? Or co-workers - who got laid off and are taking it out on some manager at work?

    There's too many variable.
    “We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm” - George Orwell

  13. #57
    Member Array grandma4's Avatar
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    I ain't what I otta be, I ain't what I wanta be, I ain't what I could be,

    But thank God, I ain't what I used to be,
    And, Praise God, I ain't what I'm gonna be!

    II Cor 3:18

    Oh fisherman I like that signature!!! Isn't it nice to have such a wonderful look at the future.
    2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

  14. #58
    Senior Member Array InspectorGadget's Avatar
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    Number of questions just to start with (OODA Loop (for Observe, Orient, Decide and Act))

    1. Who is with me Wife/kids(no-nil-nyet), Friend/Backup(betters the odds), alone(maybe).

    2. What are the laws of the state (Florida I am pretty much protected from civil and criminal for protecting another) California it is “Duty to Retreat” I would go to jail even if I survive.

    3. Where am I (I moved to a small town for a reason, probably would not be in Downtown Trenton for reasons like this.)
    3a. What are my egress options. (open road, between buildings, unknown streets, known shortcuts) getting in is not a problem, getting back out is .... my ex-

    4. What is the situation Beating, rape, young person, old person.
    4a. Do I know the person?

    5. Who are these guys/how are they dressed (Gangbangers / White Supremacists / General Crooks) (nooooooo not profiling ACLU save us...)

    6. How many others are around (Fellow gang members hanging out)

    7. Assess my weapons starting with the most lethal 4X4 (in the road, sidewalk, corner of building), gun, pepper, tazer, knife. (3 Taliban hiding behind a mound of dirt shooting at my friends, they couldn’t shoot through the mound so they went over the top with the Humvee.... no more treat)

    Definitely call 911 first!!!!!!

    This is all before I pull my weapon.....
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  15. #59
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    if this scenario happens in my state, I'm opening fire (please read below before you flame me)

    here's why....4 or 5 people beating/kicking someone on the ground in a fetal/defensive position is a threat of death or serious bodily injury, thats a no-brainer
    these people doing the beating are already presenting the threat to the person on the ground and in defense of 3rd person I'm taking action
    I know its always debated about taking action on behalf of others, etc but thats what I would do if I saw this scenario as described in front of me, and I would hope that others would do the same for me if it was me on the ground.
    Now I'm taking into consideration that I'm actually seeing some thugs about to bash this person's skull in and not seeing off-duty officers arresting somebody, I have no doubt that I can tell the difference.
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  16. #60
    Senior Member Array xsigma40cal's Avatar
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    If you know about the valleyfair incident in Minn. then this has definately crossed your mind. From a legal standpoint, you arent liable for using your weapon to prevent a felony, though in the event they draw back, I'd be thanking my lucky stars for going through 500 rounds a month in tactical training, and having 3 rounds for each bg. backing up a bit, if its five on one, that one guy must done somethin pretty nasty to incur the wrath of 5 others. Its best to avoid it all together if you dont know exactly how to handle it.

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