4 on 1 gunfight? - Page 5

4 on 1 gunfight?

This is a discussion on 4 on 1 gunfight? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I live in georgia and a guy stabbed his girlfriend to death in a parking lot.Iwas told if i would have came up i could ...

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Thread: 4 on 1 gunfight?

  1. #61
    New Member Array blairg's Avatar
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    Jun 2009
    I live in georgia and a guy stabbed his girlfriend to death in a parking lot.Iwas told if i would have came up i could have shot this guy with no reprecussion.I was told I have to fear for my life or someone elses life in order to be justified.Is this correct?

  2. #62
    Ex Member Array United93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
    Of course. Heck, prolly even to protect you if you weren't as fast as me!
    Oh, O.K. Good to know.

    I guess you were just confused in your last post.

  3. #63
    Distinguished Member Array Bunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xsigma40cal View Post
    If you know about the valleyfair incident in Minn. then this has definately crossed your mind. From a legal standpoint, you arent liable for using your weapon to prevent a felony, though in the event they draw back, I'd be thanking my lucky stars for going through 500 rounds a month in tactical training, and having 3 rounds for each bg. backing up a bit, if its five on one, that one guy must done somethin pretty nasty to incur the wrath of 5 others. Its best to avoid it all together if you dont know exactly how to handle it.

    I haven't heard about the incident. Do you have a link, please?
    Don't frisk me, I am the weapon.

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  5. #64
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Here's a link to a few links....

    valleyfair Minnesota incident - Google Search
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  6. #65
    Senior Member Array JohnK87's Avatar
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    Hastings, MN
    We had a lot of discussion on the Valleyfair incident on the Minnesota (twincitiescarry.com) board. In the end, I decided I would not get involved, even though the guy was getting the *((*& kicked out of him.

    The biggest issue was that there were innocent people all around and if I started shooting I'd hit them as well. The secondary issue was that I'm not taking on a big group of gangbangers, exposing my family to retaliation, and taking on the legal expenses of a righteous shoot for someone I don't know.

    I'll call 911 and start the cellphone camera recording, that's it.
    ‎An enemy of liberty is no friend of mine. I do not owe respect to anyone who would enslave me by government force, nor is it wise for such a person to expect it. -- Isaiah Amberay

  7. #66
    Member Array mikecu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErnieNWillis View Post
    If I drew on five and they drew back on me I would make sure all 13 rounds in my G23 hit their mark. I would then make sure the next 13 from my spare mag ended the threat permenently. On the other hand I would just sit in my car, call the police and keep my side arm at ready incase the became interrested in me.
    I think that you should have had 1 in the pipe(13+1) to start with. Your not one of those that are unprepared, are you?

  8. #67
    Member Array mikecu's Avatar
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    There isn't enough info to give an accurate answer.

  9. #68
    JRI is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post

    Once you make the very serious not a joke decision to draw _and_ draw down on to any person never mind a group of persons...well then you had better be be prepping that trigger if not aligning that front sight.

    Under said scenario which truthfully can and literally exactly as detailed with multiple assailants has a number of times occurred in so called nice/good/safe areas (criminal acting people are universal...not regional), if the BGs turned around and drew their own firearm(s) there would be _no time_ to be thinking okay what next. Reason being because BG rounds incoming would be barely missing you if not taking strikes on to you.

    There is a huge functional difference between BGs and GGs.
    * GGs generally have compassion and concern for legality as well as a general wish to resolve conflict without having to take a life. As well they often time will make bluffs be it verbal or physical. They don't really want to see anyone get hurt be it them or anyone else, including the BG.
    Same applies to police again speaking in general.

    * BGs on the other hand they generally and largely operate by a completely different set of rules and mores. Primary amongst them being survive or die. That is how they come wired and/or are programmed by life experiences.
    Generally they do not and will not hesitate. For them it's always exploit so as to get within the preys OODA loop. They have just two steps in their thought process; 1) Draw and 2) FIRE!
    If by chance you happen to get the jump on them same as a hyena or wild dog they will assess the situation and either flee or assess you as a being meat, and by that attempt to get under your skin...literally.

    By the time the BGs turned around if armed with firearms there would be nothing but a wall of bullets for the GG to view and debate on what to do next.
    Do not get caught out as such without at the very least stealthy concealment if not optimally hard cover.
    This applies at all ranges be it from across the street or at 2 paces.

    I'd first and foremost contact 911 and report it and be _doubly sure_ to impress upon the operator that there is an attempted murder in progress and that the victim is in mortal danger. Code 3.
    After that my first thought would most likely be where can I position myself optimally for both distance and hard cover as well as points of escape...if not a location that can I use to confuse them as to my exact location such as speaking toward them from darkness/shadow.

    I'd not want to see a citizen be hurt never mind killed, but I'm not going to risk getting myself the same treatment or killed in that persons stead. Which also has and does occur.
    If I make the decision to draw at all muchless draw down on some person(s) then well the situation in the immediate right now this second would be quite serious.

    - Janq
    EXCELLENT! EXCELLENT! ANSWER. congrats: You obviously have a very good understanding of the real life encounter. You make a very good and often overlooked point of the different thought process of the GG-vs.-BG. The hyena/wild dog remark is right on.

  10. #69
    Distinguished Member Array tangoseal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OffDutyCCWNY View Post
    Mr. Bunny Rabbit is crazy. Just because you possess a CCW permit and hangun does not make you a LEO. Please do not try to stop crime that you incounter in the street that is not directed to you or your loved ones. Get descriptions, locations, number of perps and run for cover(leave scene). Then call the local LEO agency. DO NOT take the Law into you own hands by playing Rambo and taking on a gang assult.

    No offense and I mean NO OFFENSE to you. I guarantee you are not one... But you Sound like a LIBERAL!

    Depend on the cops to show up 30 mins later and that poor kid is now ground beef with no cardiac activity left in his chest. The 4 guys beating him probably left after he was dead and kicked some one else's chest in 5 days later.

    Thats why I practice what the finest US Mil taught me. SHOOT FAST HARD AND RELOAD BEFORE THE LAST ROUND LEAVES THE BREECH. Over and over and over and I practice. I actually have a ammo budget dedicated to practice with my 1911. I put 250rds a week down range every week of the year. Sure is expensive but if you carry a gun practice as if you are going to fight in the civil war no. 2.

    In the grand sandbox across the great blue there were many occasions that unfortuantely we had to stomp some jerks face in for beating on some little iraqi girl or boy. Its how life is ... God Bless American troops no matter what the media says about how evil we are.
    "I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan

  11. #70
    Member Array NCinstructor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Buckeye View Post
    In NC you would have to really think about it, because if the guy was getting beat as a result of picking a fight, he wouldn't have the right to use deadly force and therefore either would you. If you didn't see the whole thing, for example you came across the fight already happen. Call 911 and sit back and watch.
    In NC you had better just back off and call 911. Even if you seen the events un play from the get go, you don't know what lead to this. You may end up shooting someone that is defending themselves and at the very least end up being charged with Homicide if not Murder.
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  12. #71
    Ex Member Array 98LSWON's Avatar
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    Unless it is a friend/family member, I would just call the cops. However, If I was silly enough to get involved and became out numbered. I would quickly get back in the car and drive away.

  13. #72
    Member Array ezenbrowntow's Avatar
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    This is a very precarious situation, either way you slice it. It can be bad either way. Case in point:

    My buddies and I stopped at a convenience store about a block down from my apartment. We were about to get out of the car when we noticed a scuffle brewing inside. There was a large white male (6-4 250ish) and a smaller Hispanic male (5-9 160ish). They jarred back and forth, and the Hispanic male hit the guy with a plastic soft drink bottle. They scuffle outside. To this point, we think we're about to watch a good round or two go down. Then it happens.

    The Hispanic guy holds up the white guy while 3 more guys come out of no where. They trip the guy, and all of them proceed to start kicking him in the head. Three bolt off, and 4 more join the fray, all of the kicking him in the head. They have him pinned up against a pillar, and are giving him more than just a butt whooping. We called the cops.

    After discussing the event, we went back to the store an hour or so later and chatted up the attendant. Said they kicked the guy so much it peeled the skin back off his face. Found out later on the news the guy was in critical condition at the hospital and might not make it. I felt horrible for the guy, and had some misgivings still about whether we should have done something or not.

    So as I mentioned earlier, it's a sticky situation. This happened way before concealed carry was even on my mind (I don't think I was even 21 yet), but me and the other guys considered getting out of the car when the first three jumped in. If we had, we'd have had quite a rumble to get ourselves out of with 4 others waiting in the shadows. I understand the member earlier who mentioned "moral responsiblity", as I think that's what made me second guess myself. But being heroic doesn't always mean coming out alive or in good shape either. It's a tough call either way.


    So many variables to consider. Is my wife with me? My child? Am I in my car (with a 15 shot 9mm plus 15 shot magazine) or am I in my wife's car (probably carrying my Kahr PM9 with 7 plus a 7 round magazine)? Are there are a lot of other people around or are the streets empty? This may be one of those times as much as I hate to say it, where you rely on your gut/intution. It told me not to get out of the car that night, and it saved me a severe butt whooping. I hope I never have to find out what I'd have to do or not do. Thought provoking thread though, thanks!
    Our kindness may be the most persuasive argument for that which we believe.

    -Gordon B. Hinckley-

  14. #73
    Senior Member Array gwhall57's Avatar
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    I would call 911, take cover, and see what develops. While I am not my brother's keeper, I also subscribe to the belief that all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing... I don't think I could stand knowing that I stood by while a human being was beaten to death.
    "Bad spellers of the world - untie!"

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  15. #74
    Member Array glock45's Avatar
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    Once you pull out a gun you will have crossed a line of no return... They draw on you and now you are in mortal danger with gun(s) pointed at you.
    What do you do when you are armed and in danger of being killed or suffering great bodily harm? ...*, *, *, * and *
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  16. #75
    Member Array TRUST8383's Avatar
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    Hypothetically speaking, I have a question for you.

    Say you come up on the 4 guys beating down the one guy right?
    Now lets say you draw your weapon and you're an awesome shot and shoot all the attackers.

    Later you find out you just killed the family (say Father and 3 sons) that were beating down an assailant who they chased out of their home. The assailant had just raped and murdered their mom. 4 guys come home, find the BG standing over the mom, fight ensues and they spill out onto the street. That is when you come in and shoot them all... How would you feel? Sound far fetched?

    Say someone is trying to mug you, and you shoot him. And someone passing by sees you shoot him. How do they know who's the bad guy and who the good guy is? Does the passerby run up and be a hero and try to shoot you? Or should they call the cops?

    I'm not trying to start an arguement, but things are not always black & white, and real life is not like the movies...

    That being said, drawing your gun on 4 guys will be a bad day, no matter what happens next.

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