Defensive situation while intoxicated - Page 2

Defensive situation while intoxicated

This is a discussion on Defensive situation while intoxicated within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; While this may seem like one of those "out there" scenarios , a year and a half ago within about a 5 week period we ...

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  1. #16
    Member Array TravisABQ's Avatar
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    While this may seem like one of those "out there" scenarios , a year and a half ago within about a 5 week period we had three similar events which resulted in the crazy man getting shot, two of them fatally, IIRC.

    I could not say whether any of the residents were drinking, but they were never charged or arrested.

    I think that suspicious investigators may try to connect you to the dead crazy guy in all kinds of erroneous and offensive ways, regardless of your state of intoxication.

    If you have a DA who decides to make your prosecution his campaign issue, he will be "calling into question" your training, skill, judgement whether you were drinking or NOT.

    Lawyer up.

    I'd rather be drunk and shoot a home invader, than have to shoot a mugger in a parking lot, cold sober.


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    If someone kicks in my front door, their first problem would be several very angry dogs. At that point, Mr. BG can either run like the hounds of hell are after him (pretty close to what would happen), become a substitute for Ol' Roy, or fire a shot.

    While any sane person would prefer that the BG run away, if he did start shooting, your condition would be of little importance.
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    Simple solution: Stop after the second beer.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeagle View Post
    Simple solution: Stop after the second beer.
    Simpler solution: Stop the BG after his first home invasion.
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  5. #20
    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    I can't remember the last time I got 'toasted', it just doesn't happen anymore. I'm never to the point of having had too much...kick in my door and I'm going to be sure to empty my mag(s) so as to insure that the threat isn't leaving in an upright position.
    I got kind of toasted today.
    Laying by the pool, in 100*+ heat with humidity.
    Good book.

    Sorry. I don't drink enough for this to be an issue. An occasional beer about does it for me. However, when I realize there is about to be a home invasion, I will definitely not drink more that day. Now, since I can't guess when that will happen, I just don't drink much. Not worth it for all kinds of reasons, to me.
    Last edited by miklcolt45; June 21st, 2009 at 09:32 PM. Reason: add serious comment after smart aleck ones
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    The bold portions sum it up for me.

    It's a common question to be asked if, when and how much alcohol or other mind altering drug, prescription or not, you have consumed when you are involved in a shooting. That's why I won't go to work if I've taken a Vicodin in the previous 16 hours.

    Yes, I have a prescription for Vicodin that I use throughout the year. I even tested positive when I did my physical. Also, by policy I have to be alcohol free for at least 8 hours prior to going to work, if I recall the policy correctly, and I'm betting I do.

    Castle Doctrine hasn't been tested much in the courts, but I look for that to change.

    Biker
    What would you suggest then Biker? Should I let the man rape my wife? Should I let him kill me and my family because I have been drinking and don't want to go to court?

    You are right when you say it would not be good, but is there ever a good day to kill someone in your home? I think this is a perfect example of the old adage "better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6". As for me I would shoot him and lawyer up asap.

    ETA: I'm not a big drinker and rarely drink one, let alone enough to get tuned up.
    Last edited by atctimmy; June 22nd, 2009 at 12:28 AM.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  7. #22
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    Should I let the man rape my wife? Should I let him kill me and my family because I have been drinking and don't want to go to court?
    I don't think anyone is suggesting that you let some chump into your house to mess things up just because you have been drinking.

    I think you must do what you have to do. Whether you have been drinking or not.

    I also think that if you did have to shoot someone, and you did happen to be somewhat inebriated, that it would be naive to assume that it wouldn't matter or be an issue later on.

    You can bet that even if the shoot was 100 percent justified, that the fact that you were drunk when it occurred would cost you some grief.

    If you have an excellent lawyer, he should be able to get you out of it. If you have less than an excellent lawyer then anything can happen. It all depends on how those involved perceive it, from the Police that respond, to the EMT's that show up, to the Prosecutor and eventually to the Jury that tries the case and has to figure out if your judgement was correct.

    In the hypothetical world should it matter? Probably not. Lets face it, you are in your house, doing your own thing and someone crashes in and threatens you. You cap him and you call the cops.

    But in the real world does it matter? It most certainly does.
    You had better believe that when they see evidence of alcoholic beverages they will ask questions. How many have you had? When did you start drinking? How did you feel? How often do you drink? Why did you fear for your life? Could you have done anything different? They will ask you questions that would have never been considered if you werent drinking, and those questions will do nothing but muddle the facts that everyone involved must consider.

    One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the state of mind that you are in. Alcohol tends to reduce the inhibitions of people, that it why many people drink socially. It makes them feel good, it loosens them up.

    You have read on this board many times, in the event of a shooting that occurred in self defense, to refer the police to your lawyer right? You say only what you have to.

    But this time, you've drank a 6 pack or several mixed drinks while watching a game. Are you still going to be cognizant of what you say to the police or are you gonna speak without considering the consequences? Will you be as mentally sharp as you would have been when not drinking? Will you have to presence of mind to act accordingly or will you freak out at the fact?

    Its hard enough to be involved in a shooting when you are straight. Being involved in one when you aren't, seriously complicates things in more ways that you can imagine.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  8. #23
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    Fair enough Hotguns. I re-read the Biker post and he was mostly talking about work. My, not so eloquent, point was that in this situation you just have to do what you gotta do and let the chips fall where they may.

    Like I said in my other post I don't really drink anyhow so this is all moot to me.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  9. #24
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    Like I said in my other post I don't really drink anyhow so this is all moot to me.
    I dont drink either and its moot to me also, but there are many here that do drink and need an honest answer.

    I've been the one that asks the questions when it happens.I'v seen first hand how the addition of alcohol would make an otherwise cut and dried situation less than that.

    When you are dealing with peoples freedom and livelyhoods, the last thing you need in a defensive shooting scenario is more doubt.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  10. #25
    Member Array wolfshead's Avatar
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    I have stopped drinking alcohol since I got my CPL.
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by miklcolt45 View Post
    I got kind of toasted today.
    Laying by the pool, in 100*+ heat with humidity.
    That's not toasted bro... that's poached!

    OH! By the pool, not in it!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    You had better believe that when they see evidence of alcoholic beverages they will ask questions. How many have you had? When did you start drinking? How did you feel? How often do you drink? Why did you fear for your life? Could you have done anything different? They will ask you questions that would have never been considered if you werent drinking, and those questions will do nothing but muddle the facts that everyone involved must consider.
    Sure, they can ASK. But, you shouldn't say anything without a lawyer anyway. That fact should be heavily ingrained in your mind beforehand.

    What they ask is irrelevant. You have and should use the right to remain silent.
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  13. #28
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    You have every right to drink alcohol in your own home.
    That is not illegal.

    I'm sure that nearly every judge and prosecutor goes home at the end of their long and frustrating day...kicks their shoes off and grabs for a Scotch & Soda.

    If you do not have psychic abilities then you have no possible way of knowing in advance that your home will be invaded.

    I believe that in that instance your Blood Alcohol condition would be basically irrelevant.

    You did nothing to instigate or initiate the circumstance that was being perpetrated against you.

    I say that you are within your legal rights to protect your life and the lives of your family members in your own home no matter what condition you're in.

    You were in your own home watching TV and not out drunk on the street roaming around and trolling for trouble.

    What if you were physically incapacitated your own home and laying in bed zonked on pain medication prescribed to you by your doctor?

    Same difference.

    You have absolutely no way of pre-predicting that some crazed criminal intends to illegally break in and enter your home.

    Possibly he was unarmed...maybe he was planning on hitting your kitchen drawer first and grabbing a butcher knife?
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  14. #29
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    The point is: in a judgment call such as a shooting based on a reasonable man standard (where Castle Doctrine doesn't otherwise apply and cover all such action), potential impaired judgment will be a discussion point in the investigation, pure and simple.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  15. #30
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    Talking

    In that situation I would do what I felt was necessary to do and let the chips fall where they may.

    I am former pilot sitting as a passenger on a private plane.

    I'm sitting...relaxed & in my seat and I just had 2 alcoholic drinks while reading a book in flight.

    The pilot has a sudden massive heart attack and dies.
    I'm the only other person on that plane with former flight experience.

    NO WAY am I going to jump into that pilots seat and attempt to land that plane because I just had 2 drinks...and if anything goes wrong...like I a made a really hard landing and 2 passengers suffered injuries...the FAA might say that I "screwed up" because I was drunk.

    Much better that everybody on the plane should just crash, burn, and die for sure because I never fly airplanes while possibly intoxicated.

    It one of my rules. I get your point.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

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