House Clearing Thread -- Further Thoughts

This is a discussion on House Clearing Thread -- Further Thoughts within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I just finished reading the thread "Cleared My House Tonight!" and wanted to add something, but found it had been closed, which means I'll venture ...

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Thread: House Clearing Thread -- Further Thoughts

  1. #1
    Member Array AFVet1982's Avatar
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    House Clearing Thread -- Further Thoughts

    I just finished reading the thread "Cleared My House Tonight!" and wanted to add something, but found it had been closed, which means I'll venture out and start a thread of my own (Mods, bear with me, I'll get to the point shortly). One of the things I consistently noticed was the OP and a number of those responding used their own home defense firearms when they did the "practice clearing." I've got some serious concerns about that particular method of practicing home defense that I wish to share. If this has already been covered in another thread, my apologies for the redundancy and I'll be glad to read those posts when I find the thread/link.

    My point to this thread is if you want to practice that sort of thing, invest about $20 or so in a brightly-colored practice/training gun. Back in February, a young husband shot and killed his wife when he used their HD shotgun for this type of exercise. Here's a link to one of the articles: Report: Lincoln newlywed kills his wife while playing a game .

    Using a functional firearm, loaded or unloaded, to practice something like this is really a bad idea IMHO. Since a significant number of contributors write that their spouses also carry, that seems to me to increase the chance of a tragic accident.

    The practice/training guns are available at several of the gun stores here in Omaha, so I'm pretty sure they would also be available in other areas of the country. Personally, I think the idea of practicing how you would clear your house is a great idea, and I'm going to plan on doing that myself after I get a practice/trainer pistol.

    Finally, I know that this post will also provoke some debate on the nature of the incident, especially in light of all the recent husband-kills-wife stories in the news. My personal opinion is that all the facts related to the incident have still not surfaced, and there may yet be some action on this by the criminal court system. Obviously, if any charges are filed in relation to this, the husband is certainly innocent until proven guilty.

    Just wanted to get this off my chest. Thanks.
    / / / / pkv / / / /
    "There are three kinds of people in the world: those who learn from the mistakes of others, those who learn from their own mistakes, and those who feel compelled to urinate on the electric fence." -- Unknown

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    Senior Member Array Keltyke's Avatar
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    Personally, I think the idea of practicing how you would clear your house is a great idea, and I'm going to plan on doing that myself after I get a practice/trainer pistol.
    I wouldn't try to clear my house for a million dollars. Even the professionals who are trained to do it with several backups say it's VERY dangerous. The guy in the lead is the first one who'll get shot. Think about it, the criminal is hiding in the darkness. He knows where he is - you don't. He also knows where YOU are by the sounds you make moving around. He's got the drop on you. He'll drop the hammer about the same time you light him up with your flashlight.

    Anything I have is replaceable. Me? I'll bunker up with my wife and prepare to repel while calling 911 and hitting the panic button on the alarm (which should have been set and already going off). Let the BG come to me on MY terms and turf. He'll walk into my well-lit field of fire while I'm still in the dark, in concealment, and aleady aimed. He won't get a warning.

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    My plan is to heard everyone in the bedroom and call 911. We have already rehearsed it. I will give the police a description of where I am at and permission to kick my door in and get the bad guy. If the bad guy starts coming through the bedroom door after I warn him, it is self preservation at that point. I explained that to a local LEO and he said "That's what we get paid for and we like it". I like that bravado.

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    Distinguished Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    Unless you have children who need protection, I think it is a bad idea to attempt to clear your home. I believe that even the pros do not do it without multiple officers. If possible get the children in your bedroom without trying to clear the whole house.

    The best thing is to lock the bedroom door, have your firearm ready, and call 911. Consider what might happen to your wife and children if you were incapacitated as you tried to clear the house.

    Get gun, family in the bedroom, lock door, and call 911.

    Regards,
    Jerry

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    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Several years ago, and have once cleared a building looking for an intruder.

    It seemed like a good idea at the time.
    Yes. I was stupid.

    It was a terrible experience in which I made some mistakes which could have gotten me killed, and I wouldn't do it again without dogs, flashbangs and a cut down semi-auto 12 ga or a submachinegun.

    If you don't have to do it, don't.

    At the least, you need proper training, proper gear and a dam good reason to do it.

    It is not fun.
    It is not exciting.
    It give me the chills knowing how many angles I could have gotten shot from simultaneously, or through walls...

    And yes, before doing this, I did have training within the past year before this event.

    That training kept me from making worse mistakes, but still...

    It's a terrible thing to do. You do need to know how to do it, and for that you should seek professional instruction because you don't get to chose were or how you fight, because the skills of CQB translate over to any sort of fight within a structure...but doing it when you have another choice.

    NO

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    Member Array AFVet1982's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keltyke View Post
    I wouldn't try to clear my house for a million dollars.
    Quote Originally Posted by MP45Man View Post
    My plan is to heard everyone in the bedroom and call 911. .
    Quote Originally Posted by JerryM View Post
    Unless you have children who need protection, I think it is a bad idea to attempt to clear your home.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keltyke View Post
    Let the BG come to me on MY terms and turf. He'll walk into my well-lit field of fire while I'm still in the dark, in concealment, and already aimed. He won't get a warning.

    Good points, and all well-taken. I suppose I was getting a bit caught up in some of the other posts on that thread. I am fortunate that my home does give me an advantage similar to the last extract above should anyone ever get into the house, and I'll use that to my best advantage. The comment on training is spot-on, and I do plan to get several types of CQB training as part of the overall "plan." I'll swear off trying to learn to "clear" my dwelling until getting proper training and probably also some professional-type assistance in putting a clearing plan together.

    My intent with the original post was to focus the discussion on the issue of doing a walk-through (or practice clearing) with a live or functional firearm. As I originally posted, not a good idea at all.
    / / / / pkv / / / /
    "There are three kinds of people in the world: those who learn from the mistakes of others, those who learn from their own mistakes, and those who feel compelled to urinate on the electric fence." -- Unknown

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    Member Array ritepath's Avatar
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    what if the house is one level open floor plan and the kids bedrooms are at the other end of the house.....My weenie dogs won't get the job done.

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    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    I'll join the chorus here:
    1. Trying to clear your house (or any building) without proper training is a very bad idea.
    2. Even if you have proper training, trying to clear a building by yourself is still pretty stupid. Clearing a building is a two person job minimum, more is better.

    Call the cops, let them handle it.

    Now, all that said, depending on the situation, particularly your family situation, there may be circumstances where you need to move through your house. If someone breaks in in the middle of the night and your child is in another room, you're probably not going to stay put and wait for the cops. Similarly, if your spouse starts screaming bloody murder in another part of the house, you're probably going to head that way pretty quick. However, this sort of situation is very different from clearing a house. Instead of a careful, thorough search, this demands quick movement, ready to shoot if necessary, but primarily relying on speed and surprise to get you where you need to go as fast as possible. Once you're there, and have dealt with anyone in your kids room or accosting your spouse if necessary, bunkering up and waiting for the cops is still the best choice.

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    Concerns like this are the reason my wife and I chose the house we are living in now, as well as the construction of our previous home. Both homes have the advantage of having all of the bedrooms upstairs, with only one way up and one way down. We can herd everybody into our bedroom if we have time, if not then any would-be attacker is funneled into an unprotected stairway to get to us.

    Waiting at the top of that stairway is me and my Benelli M5, behind me will be sweetie pie with a cell phone & her weaponry, a .357 revolver and a Remington Marine Magnum 12 gauge.

    I agree with the folks wanting to steer away from house clearing. I am a big believer in the old strategy of occupying the high ground and making your enemy come to you in tactically disadvantaged situations like unprotected stairways. I think if you can avoid situations where the intruder can even the odds or stack them in his favor, the better off you are.....

    Just my .02.....
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

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    Senior Member Array Keltyke's Avatar
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    My intent with the original post was to focus the discussion on the issue of doing a walk-through (or practice clearing) with a live or functional firearm. As I originally posted, not a good idea at all.
    On that point, you are absolutely correct. Use a dummy weapon, especially if one of your loved ones is playing the part of the BG.

    If someone breaks in in the middle of the night and your child is in another room, you're probably not going to stay put and wait for the cops. Similarly, if your spouse starts screaming bloody murder in another part of the house, you're probably going to head that way pretty quick.
    "Blackeagle", you're right there, too. Totally different situation. I'll hit the kids room running. Maybe I'd have THAT room set up for a bunker situation so they don't have to move. If I hear the wife screaming, I'm hitting that room at a dead run, one in the chamber and the safety off. I'll probably be yelling like a banshee, too. He'll hear me coming and at that point, I want to distract him and draw his interest away from my family member.

    Sometimes the situation goes bad fast and there's no really good solution, so ya gotta do that ya gotta do.

    Get a GOOD monitored alarm and set it EVERY night. A "talkback" system is great. Within about 5 seconds of the alarm being breached, the company will come on a house-wide loudspeaker asking if you need assistance. That gives you almost instant communication with 911 ("Home invasion happening now - call 911!") and lets the BG know he's been discovered. Get control panels with panic buttons at every door. Have the alarm company wire a control panel in your bunker place, whether a bedroom or elsewhere.

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    Pros have body armor and tools like this:

    YouTube - Corner Shot


    I don't have any of the above so I'll call 911.
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

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    House clearing is a valuable tool to add to your training and I highly recommend that everyone learn how to do it... then, unless absolutely necessary, don't ever do it! Let the police do it for you!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
    superior skills."

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    Member Array gotammo's Avatar
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    house clearing by yourself = lilies and undertakers, the BG doesn't need to know the layout of your house to kill you in it.
    Hide and seek the problem is he knows where you are not the other way around.
    I would leave up to the people that get paid to get shot at.
    Have a plan seek cover only go out for loved ones.

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    Member Array Monkeytown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP45Man View Post
    My plan is to heard everyone in the bedroom and call 911. We have already rehearsed it. I will give the police a description of where I am at and permission to kick my door in and get the bad guy. If the bad guy starts coming through the bedroom door after I warn him, it is self preservation at that point. I explained that to a local LEO and he said "That's what we get paid for and we like it". I like that bravado.
    Same here. The only "clearing" I might have to do is rounding up the kids. I live in a ranch style home and my hallway is open to the living room and dining room, so I could be exposed to the BG while getting the kids. Otherwise we are in the BR far corner from door with 5 rds 12ga. 000 buckshot waiting.
    "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." Benjamin Franklin

    Steps in the stripping of State's Rights/Sovereignty
    1. War of Northern Agression 2. Coersion to ratify the 14th Amendment 3. Ratified 17th Amendment

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