De-escalating confrontations while carrying - Page 2

De-escalating confrontations while carrying

This is a discussion on De-escalating confrontations while carrying within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by TravisABQ The problem I have with the theory of "de-escalation" is that it is predicated on the assumption that what is going ...

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Thread: De-escalating confrontations while carrying

  1. #16
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TravisABQ View Post
    The problem I have with the theory of "de-escalation" is that it is predicated on the assumption that what is going on in an aggressor's head has anything to do with your (assumed) provocation.

    Some characters are reacting to mutual chest-thumping. Plenty get all the ego stroking they need by cold-cocking you when your back is turned.

    Don't assume that backing up will solve the problem.
    Showing that you are trying to retreat from a situation, and offering the aggressor a way out, that saves face, that doesn't further endanger you or others is the best option, IMO.

    Let the aggressor "save face" and maybe you won't have to cross that line. However, if the aggressor doesn't take that out, and you are in reasonable fear of your life, or the life of a third party, you may be justified in using deadly force.

    True, the aggression being displayed may not be because of you. However, you may be able to de-escalate the situation and walk away. The only "good" gunfight is the one in which no shots are fired.

    "There are no winners in a gunfight, only survivors."

    Some characters are reacting to mutual chest-thumping.
    Sort of like all the "chest thumpers" here on DC.

    Biker
    Last edited by BikerRN; June 28th, 2009 at 02:58 AM. Reason: typo


  2. #17
    Member Array Manan's Avatar
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    Never pull over and stop. Most folks will cool down with a few moments of reflection. Usually your safer in a moving car and the space it allows between you and the other person. If he starts getting aggressive in his driving, dial 911.

    NEVER tell someone you armed. Maybe they are too.
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  3. #18
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycler View Post
    He rear ends you and goes off the handle
    "Dude, are you okay?"
    "Is your friend okay?"

    Takes the wind out of many people's sails.

  4. #19
    Member Array wolfshead's Avatar
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    Road rage in Seattle is at its peak. All the passive agressiveness comes out when they get behind a wheel of a car. I remember I was merging onto the freeway and a semi decided to cut me off. I thought he was a jerk for going over 80 since all semis needed to go lower than 60.

    He then decided to block my path violently all the way to Bellevue.

    I had a Bimmer back then so I had to take the next exit like a chicken. No one was hurt, so it was all good.

    *sigh*

  5. #20
    JNC
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    You know... I ran into Francis last week. I was out running (well I'm more jogging than running). And I was not carrying. (something I have to figure out). When this guy runs a four way stop sign as I am in the middle of the intersection about to cross in front of him. I have to check my stride and come to a stop. I (without shouting) said nice stop. Nothing else. I should've just kept my mouth shut. He whips his car around and comes chasing after me yelling. I just keep jogging and see a Police b/w in a near by parking lot and make my way towards it. He zips off.

    Point is I should have just kept my mouth shut. Point two I wish I had that comforting feeling in my back waist band. It's always better to avoid and de escalate.

    Makes me think of the style of no sword.
    Tsukahara Bokuden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  6. #21
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBlanc1775 View Post
    In the event you cant "de-escalate" the situation would there be the option to go from concealed carry to open carry? (ofcourse in states that are legal to open carry otherwise you would be breaking the law by showing) That wouldnt be considered brandishing? Would not have to say anything when doing so just simply moving your shirt to the other side where its obvious you are armed.
    In Arizona, that would be considered aggravated assault. Your gun is a defensive weapon against deadly force. It has NO other purpose.

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBlanc1775 View Post
    In the event you cant "de-escalate" the situation would there be the option to go from concealed carry to open carry? (ofcourse in states that are legal to open carry otherwise you would be breaking the law by showing) That wouldnt be considered brandishing? Would not have to say anything when doing so just simply moving your shirt to the other side where its obvious you are armed.
    Read up on your own States laws, but in Oklahoma it would be perfectly legal to pull your weapon and NOT fire it if you are acting in self defense.

    Michael

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBlanc1775 View Post
    In the event you cant "de-escalate" the situation would there be the option to go from concealed carry to open carry? (ofcourse in states that are legal to open carry otherwise you would be breaking the law by showing) That wouldnt be considered brandishing? Would not have to say anything when doing so just simply moving your shirt to the other side where its obvious you are armed.
    In Michigan open carry is legal, but I think the act of displaying the gun while in an altercation might be considered brandishing. The definition is "displaying in a menacing or intimidating manor" since you displayed it to intimidate you might have a problem.

  9. #24
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    This maxim I attribute to the late Maj. Russell A. Hawes, Chief of Police in the City of Alexandria some time back, and founder of the Association of Chiefs of Police: "Never hesitate to give away that which cost you nothing."

    He was talking about pride, mainly. His idea was that you can avoid trouble, and make friends, by being courteous, polite, and generous with complements. And at the same time, apologize to idiots who are clearly wrong: "I'm sorry, my fault, please forgive me."

    His policy based on that maxim, coupled with the idea that where a generous spirit fails, sudden and severe action may be required, and if required, should be ruthlesslessly and unhesitatingly applied, was what made that city's police department into a model of professionalism.

    Since he was over 90 when he died, and not without violent enemies, I suggest that his advice makes good sense.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedBeau View Post
    In Michigan open carry is legal, but I think the act of displaying the gun while in an altercation might be considered brandishing. The definition is "displaying in a menacing or intimidating manor" since you displayed it to intimidate you might have a problem.
    You hit the nail on the head: the essence of the crime of brandishing is not the use of the firearm, but the intimidation or coercion. If you have no reason to kill, keep your hand off the gun and don't show off.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    Nothing I say as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice. Legal questions should be presented to a competent attorney licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SleepingZ View Post
    NEVER EVER tell Francis you're armed, cause it may very well come back to BITE you.

    Even if it was not your fault, apologize, it takes the wind out of their sails, Don't argue, just sorry.


    Z

    agree with this for the girlfriend glance, etc., but if the context is a fender-bender, especially if he rear-ended you, don't admit any fault related to the car accident or you may end up footing the bill. Of course, in any car accident even minor you probably should call the cops.

  12. #27
    Member Array Cycler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    He was talking about pride, mainly. His idea was that you can avoid trouble, and make friends, by being courteous, polite, and generous with complements. And at the same time, apologize to idiots who are clearly wrong: "I'm sorry, my fault, please forgive me."
    I was thinking this the other day when thinking about this post. I'm not a lawyer, but I agree with everything about that except admitting fault. These days, that's never a good idea.

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    Agree with most, But In FL. I would stay in car exchange info If he's willing if not call 911 of course all this time your in your car with window cracked, Then if he tries to get in car/TRUCK pepper spray & leave, call 911 again. PS reason I would pull over if not hit & run & you don't know his intentions untill He's out of his veical JMO H/D
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  14. #29
    Member Array Jay Frame's Avatar
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    The title of Jeff Coopers books summed it up well. "Everybody Walks Away A Winner" This is true in any confrontation. I've been carrying for almost 25 years, and I always have let the small stuff slide.

    You can't ever have the last word.

    You can't ever give the finger.

    You have to take being cussed at.

    You have to apologize even when its not your fault.

    You can never cause a situation to escalate, because you know that deadly force can be introduced into any confrontation.

    Because of this, the courts hold you to a higher standard of conduct.

    It is a big burden to carry a gun all of the time, not a "gee this is cool" kind of thing. Keep your head down. Keep your attitude humbled. Avoid if at all possible. But, when it is time to act, act decisevely. I think that this has alread been said 2 dozen different way. Best -

  15. #30
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Frame View Post
    The title of Jeff Coopers books summed it up well. "Everybody Walks Away A Winner" This is true in any confrontation. I've been carrying for almost 25 years, and I always have let the small stuff slide.

    You can't ever have the last word.

    You can't ever give the finger.

    You have to take being cussed at.

    You have to apologize even when its not your fault.

    You can never cause a situation to escalate, because you know that deadly force can be introduced into any confrontation.

    Because of this, the courts hold you to a higher standard of conduct.

    It is a big burden to carry a gun all of the time, not a "gee this is cool" kind of thing. Keep your head down. Keep your attitude humbled. Avoid if at all possible. But, when it is time to act, act decisevely. I think that this has alread been said 2 dozen different way. Best -
    I wish some of our newer members and chest thumpers would take those words to heart. Heck, even some of the older members too. There's too many looking for an "excuse" IMO.

    Thank you for posting that. I doubt that anyone here would call Col. Cooper a wimp or effeminate male of the species.

    Biker
    Last edited by BikerRN; June 30th, 2009 at 01:45 AM. Reason: typo

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