De-escalating confrontations while carrying
This is a discussion on De-escalating confrontations while carrying within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So I was listening to the radio today and heard something about road rage and it got me thinking about confrontations where even though you ...
June 27th, 2009 03:36 PM
De-escalating confrontations while carrying
So I was listening to the radio today and heard something about road rage and it got me thinking about confrontations where even though you try your hardest to stay away from bad areas, you find yourself face to face with "Francis" from Stripes, a total hot head who's completely overreacting to a situation. e.g.:
He rear ends you and goes off the handle
Glancing at his girlfriend
Asking him to go behind you instead of cutting ahead of you in line
You accidentally cut him off because he was in your blind spot
You start out by trying to de-escalate the situation by saying "look, whatever it was, it was an accident", or "let's just move on", "let's calm down" whatever but, he won't drop it and gets more irate and shouting with you, probably even getting your temper up with his attitude. Problem is that if he keeps persisting, you might be tempted or even forced to draw/shoot but again, nothing here is life threatening yet.
Is it ever appropriate to tell Francis you're armed and "we should really just part ways"? The goal is to make sure the situation never gets to the lethal level as I would imagine you'd have a hell of a time defending yourself in court.
June 27th, 2009 03:50 PM
Humans are the only animal on earth that turns toward danger.
First rule of jiu jitsu "No challenge, No resistance, No injury"
On the road, let him get next to you, or in front of you, and then either pull over and stop, or take the exit. Either way he will probably keep going. I had one idiot one time that actually stopped on the highway, and backed up. But then he took off again.
In person, walk away. If he steps in front of you, or approaches you, say in a real loud voice. "Hey, I don't want any trouble". If he takes action defend yourself. The onlookers will testify that he started it, and you told him you didn't want any trouble.
Second rule of Jiu Jitsu " Strike your opponent before he strikes you"
June 27th, 2009 04:06 PM
All good advice.
Originally Posted by Chroode
It is so easy to 'get angry and get involved', the urge to resist that anger is something that anyone carrying a firearm must learn to do.
There have still been times that an idiot in a car has gotten me angry and I may or may not have expressed my displeasure with his actions...we all need to work on staying calm while others lose their 'cool'.
There IS power in 'calm'.
Stay armed...stay calm...stay safe!
Proverbs 27:12 says: “The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.”
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
June 27th, 2009 04:09 PM
Very Good Advice.....slow to anger always wins
June 27th, 2009 04:48 PM
"Lighten up Francis" seemed to work in Stripes!
Personally - I'm not going anywhere near my weapon unless someone pulls out something really scary. But that's me...I'm 6'03 and 255 lbs of heavy love. "Francis" starts hollering and getting in my face...takes a swing...whatever, I can handle his baby fists of fury...and I'm not talking about standing there and taking a beating.
So many options...use a soft voice to counter his loud voice. Backup/retreat. Escalate my voice (it's a big one coming out of a big dude). Move to an area where I can get something between him and me. Clobber him with pepper spray. Show him a magic trick (I've got a devastating coin vanish) etc, etc, etc...
It would take alot to get me to reach for the big hammer, short of him reaching for and/or presenting a gun or knife...
I don't believe in the "you'd better back down because I have a gun" method. I think that's asking for trouble.
"I'm a big, hairy, American winning machine!" - Ricky Bobby
June 27th, 2009 04:49 PM
Always remember that in any violent confrontation you can be 100% "in the right" and still end up just as "stone cold dead" as if you were 100% in the wrong.
Things do not always go as we imagine they might...and final outcomes are not always the expected ones.
You can be RIGHT and be dead and that is not exactly what I would call winning.
Stuff Happens no matter how skilled and how well armed you think you might be.
Choose your battles carefully and decide what is potentially worth dying for and what is not.
You do not want to possibly meet your maker over a dented fender.
So a wise person would try hard to get things calmed way down down if possible.
June 27th, 2009 05:12 PM
"Without fear there can be no Courage!"
June 27th, 2009 05:15 PM
If in a vehicle, turn at the first available chance and let him go on. If on foot swallow your pride and apologize, if that doesn't defuse the situation walk away. No supposed slight or minor traffic mishap is worth dying over or having to take someones life.
June 27th, 2009 05:43 PM
Thanks for the thoughts. Those are basically the things I'm thinking too. What I'm really envisioning is the guy who just won't back down in spite of efforts to de-escalate.
The more I think about it, I guess the proper thing to do while packing is the same thing to do when not packing. E.g. you're in line for something with your family and some buff muscle heads take cuts in front of you. You ask them to go to the back of the line and they start in at you. Even if I'm not packing, it's a much better option to do what it takes to not get cold cocked in the mouth by some roid-head.
I guess what I'm struggling with is this: I only recently got my CPL. In the past, if a nit-wit took cuts in front of me, I'd say something. Perhaps I have to hold my tongue now even if it doesn't feel right.
June 27th, 2009 06:02 PM
Would it also be wise to call 911 to try and further de-escalate the situation? That is if he is too hot headed and won't accept an apology. That way you at least have it recorded that you were trying to keep the situation from reaching to the point where you were forced to draw.
June 27th, 2009 06:17 PM
Calling 911 is probably a great idea! The thing to remember here is that as lawful citizens who carry loaded firearms, we have much more of a responsibility to hold our tongues and our tempers, and make sure the situation does NOT come to SHTF, lest we come across as bloodthirty, or looking to shoot someone, etc., and give the antis more fodder for their poop cannon.
I don't like it when remarks are made like "remind me not to piss YOU off" as they look at your gun. And I usually explain very gently that folks who carry are probably the most level-headed, with the longest fuses out there. Because we HAVE to be. Think about it. (And then in my head, I picture slapping the idiot who mouthed off and thought it was funny in the first place.)
Don't frisk me, I am the weapon.
Sig Sauer P239 DAK (9mm)
NRA Member & Pistol Instructorwww.vanguardnc.com
June 27th, 2009 08:23 PM
I do everything possible to eliminate the need to hurt someone, I have no ego and no need to be a tough guy. If push comes to shove Francis will just have to get his butt kicked, the gun isn't coming out for something like this unless Francis has a weapon.
When I was taking Coumadin ( a blood thinner) it might have been different.
June 27th, 2009 09:45 PM
NEVER EVER tell Francis you're armed, cause it may very well come back to BITE you.
Originally Posted by Cycler
Even if it was not your fault, apologize, it takes the wind out of their sails, Don't argue, just sorry.
An ounce of lead is worth 200lbs of cop.
June 28th, 2009 02:15 AM
In the event you cant "de-escalate" the situation would there be the option to go from concealed carry to open carry? (ofcourse in states that are legal to open carry otherwise you would be breaking the law by showing) That wouldnt be considered brandishing? Would not have to say anything when doing so just simply moving your shirt to the other side where its obvious you are armed.
June 28th, 2009 02:33 AM
The problem I have with the theory of "de-escalation" is that it is predicated on the assumption that what is going on in an aggressor's head has anything to do with your (assumed) provocation.
Some characters are reacting to mutual chest-thumping. Plenty get all the ego stroking they need by cold-cocking you when your back is turned.
Don't assume that backing up will solve the problem.
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