A different kind of scenario.

A different kind of scenario.

This is a discussion on A different kind of scenario. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; You are on a jury. The defendant is charged with a felony. He was working at a local middle school. It is summer. There is ...

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  • Guilty

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  • Not Guilty by reason of jury nullification.

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Thread: A different kind of scenario.

  1. #1
    Member Array Jay Frame's Avatar
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    A different kind of scenario.

    You are on a jury. The defendant is charged with a felony. He was working at a local middle school. It is summer. There is a construction project going on, he is doing some inspections for the contractor, he is usually alone in his work, since the tradesmen have completed their tasks. On this particular day, a few, say 3 hoodlums decide to enter the vacant school, and he is surprised by them. Their intentions are obvious. They just happen to come through the cafeteria area, on a separate alarm, and trip the silent alarm while looking for something to steal or ransack in the kitchen.

    Here come the cops, they are all four found, before any mahem can take place, you now the drill, his reason to be there is validated, he is patted down in the process....rest of story.

    It goes into the jury room to be deliberated. You listen to the stern instructions from the judge. Funny, he never mentions the fact that juries can find anyone not guilty, and void any charge. It is known as jury nullification. Now, would you vote guilty, or not guilty and pursuade your fellow jurors to go for nullification? A jury has a right to nullify charges for any unjust or unfair law, not that sheeple will do it that often.

    I'm not a lawyer, maybe a lawyer here could give his opinion on this. I'd be interested in knowing it.


  2. #2
    MLC
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    interesting. i've pulled jury duty a lot of times in my life and have never heard of jury nullification. i'm going to assume he was arrested for carrying. here in new mexico thats a felony plain and simple. odds are a jury here has never heard of nullification so he get convicted. what would i do? now that i've heard there might be something called "not guilty by jury nullification" i'd try and convince the rest of the jury to follow suit but if thats not a legal option here for a jury then i'd have to go with guilty.

  3. #3
    Member Array Jay Frame's Avatar
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    MLC, google it, you'd be surprised at what you might find. I have read in books that often times a judge will declare a mistrial if the defense lawyer brings up jury nullification.

    Remember, when we were a great Republic, the power of the counry truly rested with the people. Even on juries, in the courtroom.

  4. #4
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    He's not WITH the other three dirtbags...that would, hopefully, be pointed out by the defense team.

    The situation as you described would probably find me holding out for a not guilty verdict...I'm pretty stubborn...and I have principles I MUST live by...
    Last edited by RETSUPT99; June 30th, 2009 at 12:26 AM.
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  5. #5
    Member Array sddykstr's Avatar
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    I've been in a trial where we voted a defendant not guilty for marijuana possession. It's one of those things where the jury can nullify the verdict because they disagree with the law.

    Judges don't have to tell the jury of their right to jury nullification, but we absolutely have the right to disagree with a law and vote accordingly.

    I'd vote not guilty.

  6. #6
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    I would nullify it.

    Judges hate it. They dont want anyone to know about it.

    Due to our public education system dumbing down America to the point that most people are just cannon fodder, most people have never heard about it and have no concept of it.

    It is the ultimate check against unjust laws.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  7. #7
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  8. #8
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post

    It is the ultimate check against unjust laws.
    +1
    Some say that jury nullification was a big reason that prohibition was done away with. People wanted the booz so they refused to convict many of the moonshiners and runners.

    Michael

  9. #9
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    The police discovered an illegal item on an other wise "legal" person that was authorized to be where he or she was.

    Guilty.

    Just because we think something is unfair doesn't mean it is an unjust law. I'm not a lawyer, and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I do feel that one should abide by the laws and if they don't agree with them work to change them through the legal ways at our disposal.

    Biker

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
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    If determining guilt was the only reason for juries, there would not be any juries as the judge is much better at spotting guilt and applying the law than any jury would be.

    IMO, the jury serves three purposes, in no order.

    1) Diffuse responsibility to protect the judge from revenge seeking relatives.

    2) Push the prosecution into making guilt obvious instead of short cuts so the public can tell the person really is guilty. (Also to have a captive audience to spread the news about what went down in the trial, no secret trials.)

    3) Nullifying abusive laws.

    The legal system gets too wrapped up in it's self. It is not there to give clever people a big income, it is there to work for the public good. Strict interpretation of abusive laws leads to riots and rebellion. Jury nullification reduces the probability by allowing the public a final check on out of control law makers.

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array shooterX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sddykstr View Post
    I've been in a trial where we voted a defendant not guilty for marijuana possession. It's one of those things where the jury can nullify the verdict because they disagree with the law.

    Judges don't have to tell the jury of their right to jury nullification, but we absolutely have the right to disagree with a law and vote accordingly.

    I'd vote not guilty.
    This is how I would vote.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array LeCalsey's Avatar
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    Just a thought........I seriously DOUBT that any of you (CCW holders) would ever make it on the jury because of your license status. By nature, it poses a conflict to the case in general and the prosecuter (If they are worht their salt) would not allow you onto the jury to begin with. You would in, all likelhood, be dismissed before the case started.

    If I made the cut, I would vote for a nullification too.
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  13. #13
    Member Array Henry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    The police discovered an illegal item on an other wise "legal" person that was authorized to be where he or she was.

    Guilty.

    Just because we think something is unfair doesn't mean it is an unjust law. I'm not a lawyer, and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I do feel that one should abide by the laws and if they don't agree with them work to change them through the legal ways at our disposal.

    Biker
    If we the people consider a law wrong, or unjust, and since the constitution gives a jury the right of nullification, then it is completely legal to use that right to overthrow unjust (or even unfair) laws. Like laws that disarm citizens, for example. The final say in what laws we will have upon us is in our hands, if we have the knowledge to use that power.

    This is one of the legal ways we have to change laws, and we should use it. You make it sound as if this is not a legal way to change our laws. Are we citizens, or subjects?

  14. #14
    Member Array grandma4's Avatar
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    Not Guilty by nullification.
    2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

  15. #15
    Distinguished Member Array tiwee's Avatar
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    You can always vote not guilty, no reason need be given.

    I have never been on a jury. After I filled out the jurist questionnaire, someone excused me. Have only been called for jury duty one time. It was disappointing.

    Did get to sit on two courts martial. It was an eye opener for me. The military defense lawyers were more experienced and seem to have more leeway than the military prosecutors. Another good thing about the court martial was the members of the board could write questions for the judge to ask (if some testimony was unclear.) The members of the board were able to vote not guilty without explanation. In fact, I think we voted guilt or innocence by secret ballot in the recess room. Once the guilt decision was made, the punishment was negotiated among the board members. That was much more animated.

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