When they tell you just give in to the BG's demands....

This is a discussion on When they tell you just give in to the BG's demands.... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Here is something that can happen. I was watching one of those "Cops" type shows that had a grainy film of a holdup at a ...

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Thread: When they tell you just give in to the BG's demands....

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    When they tell you just give in to the BG's demands....

    Here is something that can happen. I was watching one of those "Cops" type shows that had a grainy film of a holdup at a 7-11 type store. The poor woman behind the counter was pleading not to be shot and cooperating fully with these two bangers to open the register and give them the money. One banger was waving his gun around, held sideways of course, and screaming at her to hurry up. All of a sudden, BAM! His gun goes off inches from her head. How this missed her I have no idea. It was so close you could see her hair puff up from the explosion.

    Now, my take was that he didn't do it on purpose judging from his reaction of surprise afterward. He was just mishandling his gun, and with all the waving it around an accidental discharge was inevitable. So, even if they had no intention of hurting you in the begining, it can happen anyway. Knowing it was an accident isn't going to make me feel any better if I am shot.

    If someone points a gun at me I think it wise to assume imminent death and react accordingly. What do you all think?
    DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.

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  3. #2
    Member Array paknheat's Avatar
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    Right on. If anything , 9-11 showed us what happens if you just give in. Right now i am in Haganah training and we deal with armed confrontations as part of the lessons. A lot of full contact and weapons disarming, etc. you get the idea. One thing that Mike Lee points out is that if someone puts a gun to you , They means to kill you. It is only that they want something from you first . If anything ever happen like that i know what i am going to do. I may feint compliance, but i am going to get them before they can get me.

  4. #3
    Member Array duckhunter's Avatar
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    Wow, this one is a lot easier (IMHO) than some of the scenarios that get posted.

    Short answer - If I see a gun, I will feel that my life is in imminent danger, and I will shoot until the threat is gone (or slide lock, whichever comes first).
    "Speed is fine, but accuracy is final." - Bill Jordan

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    Not really a scenario, I probably posted in the wrong place.

    Quote Originally Posted by duckhunter
    Wow, this one is a lot easier (IMHO) than some of the scenarios that get posted.

    Short answer - If I see a gun, I will feel that my life is in imminent danger, and I will shoot until the threat is gone (or slide lock, whichever comes first).
    Just trying to point out how this mind-set of compliance can get you killed even when the BG had no intention of killing his victim in the first place.
    DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.

    Certified Instructor for Minnesota Carry Permit
    NRA Pistol and Personal Protection Insrtuctor
    Utah Permit Certified Instructor

  6. #5
    Member Array Spectre's Avatar
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    Three people were robbed at gunpoint in the trendy Uptown part of Minneapolis a few days ago. The three complied, handed over the loot, and the robbers capped one of the three anyway. He died yesterday.

    Carry a gun, and defend yourself.

  7. #6
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    Joe - I remember that vid well - indeed she was very close to being hit.

    I consider any pointed gun - real, fake - loaded or unloaded as a threat of the highest order. I would have to assume I am most surely at risk of and in fear of my life.

    Many perp's are probably very lax in gun safety - so that in itself, like in that clip - shows the danger . Secondly despite what is given out about ''do as they ask'' - I'm sorry but too many BG's just ain't too particular over whether they shoot or who they shoot.
    Chris - P95
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    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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    I have also seen that video.She is a lucky woman.

    You have to understand that if someone is pointing a gun around in a hostile manner, that he has made a commitment to kill. I have no commitments to die for a lot more years.

    In my opinion, once the gun comes out, his life, (or yours), is forfeit.
    Heroes are people who do what has to be done, when it has to be done, regardless of the consequences

    "I like when the enemy shoots at me; then I know where the ******** are and can kill them."
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    DE OPPRESSO LIBER

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    Senior Member Array madmike's Avatar
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    I'd think in this day and age, any time a weapon is used in a robbery, that should constitute a "reasonable" fear for one's life.

    We have all seen too many security camera videos that shows people getting shot, even when they complied!

    I would "bet my freedom" on using that justification in court, if it ever came to it.

    mm
    Political Correctness has now "evolved" into Political Cowardice.

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    Distinguished Member Array RSSZ's Avatar
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    WITH UNLOADED PISTOL ........hold it sideways and point it at something. If you have your finger on the trigger you HAVE to put pressure on it to keep the muzzle from drooping. BANG- OOPs-OH WELL !!

    Weapon pointed in your general direction,your in fear for your life and he intends to kill you. Him or you ???? ------

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    Array Rock and Glock's Avatar
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    Shoot until they stop being a threat. In this case, that means BG (or me) on the floor, with weapon held in lifeless hand, in all probability.

  12. #11
    Distinguished Member Array Anubis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by havegunjoe
    If someone points a gun at me I think it wise to assume imminent death and react accordingly.
    Ditto. To assume otherwise is suicide by proxy.

    We've all seen the tapes. Cooperating convenience store clerks getting shot. Planeloads of sheep going into buildings. Hostages getting their heads sawn off.

    I will never comply with a criminal demand made by someone enforcing it with a physical threat. It's not about giving up my cash, car, or any other property. Like they say in New Hampshire...

  13. #12
    Member Array Hunting Coyotes's Avatar
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    Any weapon pointed at me in a threatening manner warrants an appropriate response. A gun pointed at me certainly warrants my full response.

    I just assume if they were friendly...they wouldn't be pointing a gun at me ... it seams reasonable that they have a deadly weapon and intent to use it. Simple enough and reason enough under most jurisdictions to take appropriate action...of which compliance is the resort of unarmed folks.

  14. #13
    Member Array duckhunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunting Coyotes
    I just assume if they were friendly...they wouldn't be pointing a gun at me ...
    Rules of Engagement in a nutshell. Well said!
    "Speed is fine, but accuracy is final." - Bill Jordan

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    Nothing ticks me off more than to hear some "authority " that reccomends "giving in" to the demands of a criminal .

    Its that kind of mentality that got us to the sorry state of humanity that we currently reside in. Its the very reason that people refuse to take responsibility for their actions, that people refuse to help themselves, choosing to let others dictate how they live their lives and expecting others to provide for their protection.

    It encourages people to beg and plead for their lives and they hope that by refusing to look their attacker in the eye that maybe they'll just go away and leave them alone. It has alot to do with denial of the fact that maybe, just maybe, another person is capable of taking their life.

    That kind of thinking only makes it easier for the predators out there to get away, in some cases, with murder. It encourages abusive action. It just about guarantees that a thug eventually becomes emboldened by the lack of action displayed by his victims and the cycle eventually becomes more vicious.

    What the "authorities" ought to be telling everyone and doing it publicly is that everyone that is capable ought to fight back with tooth and nail with every person that trys to harm them. That surrender or submission is totally undignifed and unacceptable. That anyone that attempts to rob another with any kind of weapon ought to be shot on the spot. That any one that robs a business is fair game for anyone that chooses to respond and that person is immune from any legal action from the members of the perps family with no legal recourse whatsoever.

    You fight fire with fire.

    You dont throw another lamb to the wolf to keep him away from you, because he'll come back for more.

    You kill the wolf and be done with it.

  16. #15
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    You kill the wolf and be done with it.
    You better not. Wolves are protected under the Endangered Species Act.

    Kidding aside, HotGuns, your post is right on the money. This "don't fight back" mentality is absurd. Case in point: A bank in Missoula was robbed a couple of days ago. The female robber walked up to the window in the drive-up lane, gave the teller a note demanding money, and the teller gave it to her. The robber displayed no weapon, just took the money and walked away. She never threatened the teller in any way, other than the note.


    When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
    And the women come out to cut up what remains,
    Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
    And go to your God like a soldier.

    Rudyard Kipling


    Terry

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