Home Invasion Plan

Home Invasion Plan

This is a discussion on Home Invasion Plan within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hi, First post, been lurking a couple weeks. I know this thread will somewhat overlap with a couple of the house clearing threads, but wanted ...

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Thread: Home Invasion Plan

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array Karter's Avatar
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    Home Invasion Plan

    Hi,

    First post, been lurking a couple weeks. I know this thread will somewhat overlap with a couple of the house clearing threads, but wanted to explain my specific situation and get suggestions.

    I tried to draw a diagram or floor plan but it was getting way too involved so I'll try to just describe the layout. I know this will be a very long post before what I get to some pretty basic questions, so let me just apologize up front. I'm verbose.

    We have a master bedroom downstairs. The master bedroom opens to the main family room - not directly, it actually faces a wall - so I exit bedroom,turn 90 degrees and see the open family room area.

    The entire area is very open. There is the family room, that runs right into the "break fast area" that runs right into the kitchen. The kitchen has a 4-foot bar running along the outside facing the family room, but apart from a small blind spot in the kitchen where there is one floor to ceiling cabinet you can see all of this area once you step out of master bedroom (someone could be squatting or kneeling anywhere in Kitchen and I wouldn't see him due to 4' bar/sink think.

    There is a back door (all glass paned wooden door) and three windows that open into this area. Someone breaking in, is I think most likely to take one of these avenues considering our backyard has lots of tree coverage and no neighbor to see them.

    We have a pretty good security system. Every window and door has open sensors and there are glass-breaks around the two most like entry points. Doors are not very good from a lock or strength perspective, this is probably what I address next. So someone can get in pretty easily, but there is instantly a loud alert and shortly after the system opens a voice channel and calls police if they can't figure out whats going on or ascertain our safety.

    So naturally my "home defense" plan is never leave the master bedroom area. Master bedroom has adjoining bath, bath has adjoining large walk-in closet at a 90-degree angle; this is the alamo. My wife and baby can sit in this closet and be totally out of any line of fire, I have relatively good cover in the bathroom in a prone or kneeling position behind a wall that juts out behind the bath; several feet from the door.

    We also have an old cell phone in the alamo closet; it can only dial 911 and thats its only job. My wife would hold the baby and stay on the cell and relay information.


    Unfortunately I cannot get my wife on the same page as me with regard to anything involving firearms or home defense. I bought a titan gun vault (simplex lock) for my XD45 which can be mounted almost anywhere. I wanted it under master bed on my side, because then rolling out of bed I have cover from the opening to the family room while I retrieve weapon. Wife doesn't want to sleep in the same room as a gun. I took her to a class, tried to get her comfortable with guns (she has never held or used one) - its just not happening.

    So the gun safe is in the closet adjoining the master bath.

    If someone comes in the master bedroom window, I'm probably ****** anyway unless he gets hung up on something and comes in slowly. On nightstand I have 2 oz pepper spray and a next to nightstand a 4-D mag light. So these are what I have to work with if someone moves immediately into master bedroom before we have got into the alamo or they chase us into alamo and I can't get to the weapon, I can mace and strike his weapon hand with the flashlight.

    So...I think thats all pretty decent if we are all in the master bedroom when the SHTF.

    We won't be. Eventually, baby will be sleeping in his own room, which is at the front of house. To get there I have to move down a "corridor" totally exposed to that large open area about 15 feet, and then turn 90 degrees and move down a hallway maybe 18 feet to the nursery itself (passing a hall bath and mudroom/garage entry).

    So, what to do for the middle-of-night invasion scenario?

    I think I have to retrieve weapon from closet and make a mad dash for the nursery while my wife stays in alamo with pepper spray and on the phone. Nursery is **** for cover and if a fight happens there I have to win by firing first and best and still my son could get hit. So I think this is just terrible, no real kind of plan at all. Also what did I see on the way to the nursery, and did I shoot it? From the point I leave the MB so many scenarios open up that I don't think I can have any real specific plan, but I need some basic principals or goals.

    For example, do I literally just run like hell, or do I a quick sweep and try to find and tag the BG? I lean towards run like hell because the BG has the drop on me and moving target is much harder to hit than a stationary. Obviously if BG is in my path I shoot him down. If that doesn't happen - say I ever really see the BG and get to the nursery intact, then what? Tuck infant behind best cover, and find best cover for myself and wait it out? I think thats only answer, maybe I need to rethink standard furniture for a nursery though.

    Anyway thanks for reading and appreciate all thoughts and comments for a new poster.


    Karter


  2. #2
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    Welcome...

    from Central Florida!

    Every home has a different floor plan...you certainly must know your own. I practice in my home at night, checking the angles and doorways in the dark.
    Although we may plan a certain attack, when/if it happens...it may not be what we ever expected.

    ret
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    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    One thing you need to do - You need to install some type of motion sensing light and/or alarm to alert you or at least wake you up if someone approaches your home, especially with a downstairs master bedroom....

    That can buy you precious seconds.
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

  4. #4
    jfl
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    Pepper spray

    Might just make the situation worse; even for untrained people there are a few seconds before you feel the pain; you are going to make him mad and shoot you while he can see. Then if he is on some drugs, he might not be really affected.
    You heard the old line:"Don't bring a knife to a gun-fight"; don't bring pepper spray either

    Your scenario is not workable for me; even a lock box on the night stand is too slow if the BG is in the room.
    You wake up in the middle of the night, your adrenaline is up, but your brain is not in full gear:
    - you'll lose all your fine motor skills
    - for a few seconds you'll revert to your basic instincts, whatever plan you have is gone.

    I have my Glock on the nightstand under a magazine (the paper kind), The Mossberg on a shelf under the bed, and my wife sleeps with her .357 under the pillow in a pocket holster (the sticky kind) and a speed loader in the nightstand.
    Then there are other items I will not describe on a public web-site; I want to keep the element of surprise, you never know.

    I have a very light sleep (old age privilege) and a good alarm system, so we hope we will be aware of an intruder(s) before they get to the bedroom, but still, we play a scenario every now and then.

    Also remember that home invasion happen at any time of day;
    if we are not dressed (to carry) the Glock and/or the S&W are at arms reach at the breakfast/dinner table, by the pool, or anywhere else.
    You never know.

    Read some of the post here about home invasions or store invasions; your window of opportunity is usually a very few seconds.

    In your scenario, forget about a "mad dash" to retrieve your gun, you will be focusing on the wrong priority.
    Forget about the gun and try to prepare as if you didn't have one, because you actually don't for all practical purpose.

    Somebody here has a sig I find very true, quoted from (bad) memory: "Better have a plan B and C because the first plan is not going to survive the few moments following the encounter with the enemy"
    The first rule of a gunfight: "Don't be there !"
    The second rule: "Bring enough gun"

    jfl
    (NRA Life Member/Instructor - GOA - IDPA - GSSF - ex-IHMSA)

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    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    Welcome
    There are a lot things you can do to turn your house to a fortress. Make your house less desirable to the BG's. and always expect the unexpected. Your brain is your greatest tool, the hard part is remembering to use it when the SHTF!:
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
    -Tony Soprano

  6. #6
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    ret: The problem is leaving the MB there is way to much space to cover, we're talking a large space more than 90 degree angles with much to furniture etc to hide behind. I can't "clear" this space.

    edr: You are right and I'm already working on this. Unfortunately the first camera I bought (trendnet wifi cam) was either defective or is just crap (worked great for 12 hours, then shits the bed till its reboot) , so still working on this.

    jfl: I don't know if you read my post correctly. I cannot keep any guns in the bedroom, and certainly not unlocked. There is no "mad dash" for the gun; the gun is in the safe room which is out of the path of expected entry (I do not expect entry through bedroom window - if it happens like I said I'm f*****).

    The only mad dash I mention is from the MB to the nursery to secure my child.
    Also, I don't know about you but I've been pepper sprayed. It instantly and completely incapacitated me. I know not everyone is the same, people are on drugs, etc. But pepper spray is the best thing my wife will let me leave lying around the house unlocked, so no real use debating this.

    Yes I'm only talking about a middle-of-night home invasion scenario. There are countless scenarios to consider,I should have clarified in the OP the overnight HI is the only scenario I really want to discuss in this thread.

    All: thanks for comments and suggestions so far.

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Not to be rude, but there comes a time when a man has to be a man.

    My wife didn't want guns in the house unsecured after we got married. That's fine, all but the Home Defense Shotgun and the handguns I carried that day are locked in the safe.

    There was no room for compromise on that. I would have certain guns accessable to me. If she didn't like it, she would and has gotten used to it. I'm willing to bend, but not break. The safe was the bending part.

    Biker
    Last edited by BikerRN; July 18th, 2009 at 03:37 PM. Reason: typo

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    jfl
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    Not to be rude, but there comes a time when a man has to be a man.

    My wife didn't want guns in the house unsecured after we got married. That's fine, all but the Home Defense Shotgun and the handguns I carried that day are locked in the safe.

    There was no room for compromise on that. I would have certain guns accessable to me. If she didn't like it, she would and has gotten used to it. I'm willing to bend, but not break. The safe was the bending part.

    Biker
    That was exactly the message I was trying to convey.
    My safety and mostly my family's are not negotiable.
    I get shot and I die, it's too bad, but its OK, I had a great life.
    My wife and/or my children get killed because I was "not a man" enough, my life would have been hell on earth.

    Karter: I read your post.
    I used the "mad dash" to illustrate that, in a combat situation, you cannot afford to be focusing on other issues than the fight, or at least not for long.
    I was trying to convey that I consider foolish to engage a BG with a pepper spray.
    The BG is going to have absolutely no problem killing you, I feel you don't have the same resolve.

    Even well trained with a decent gun, preferably a shotgun, the issue is not certain especially with multiple threats which is current in home invasion.

    In other words and to be blunt, I don't believe that a pepper spray and a plan will be of much help; please, please, don't kid yourself, too much is riding on that.
    The first rule of a gunfight: "Don't be there !"
    The second rule: "Bring enough gun"

    jfl
    (NRA Life Member/Instructor - GOA - IDPA - GSSF - ex-IHMSA)

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array itschuck's Avatar
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    Get a dog. They are a great early warning system. Also if the dog has some size to it, it can go find the bad guy for you. I know the brittany I have (large as brits go, 50lbs and not fat) will bee line to what ever doesnt sound normal to him. I would hate for that dog to get harmed or killed (not a bad bird dog) but it will distract the bad guy and gives me the time to take care of the situation.
    Current collection: Too many according to the wife...

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    Senior Member Array BradyM77's Avatar
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    Does your wife like dogs? Bring home a cute little puppy that before you know it will be a decent sized watchdog. A barking dog will deter all but the most determined or stupid bad guys.
    As for not being “allowed” to have your firearm accessible, thats not acceptable. Some kind of compromise needs to happen, whether it be you leave the safe unlocked at night or at night you stuff it in between the mattresses. OMO
    "I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, you can't prove anything!" Bart Simpson

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    Ex Member Array Karter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    Not to be rude, but there comes a time when a man has to be a man.
    Not to be rude, but I think that time was in the 50s.

    Dog is a good idea. I don't like them because they are too high maintenance but it may be the best thing I can actually do.

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    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karter View Post
    Hi,

    So naturally my "home defense" plan is never leave the master bedroom area. Master bedroom has adjoining bath, bath has adjoining large walk-in closet at a 90-degree angle; this is the alamo. My wife and baby can sit in this closet and be totally out of any line of fire, I have relatively good cover in the bathroom in a prone or kneeling position behind a wall that juts out behind the bath; several feet from the door.

    We also have an old cell phone in the alamo closet; it can only dial 911 and thats its only job. My wife would hold the baby and stay on the cell and relay information.


    Unfortunately I cannot get my wife on the same page as me with regard to anything involving firearms or home defense. I bought a titan gun vault (simplex lock) for my XD45 which can be mounted almost anywhere. I wanted it under master bed on my side, because then rolling out of bed I have cover from the opening to the family room while I retrieve weapon. Wife doesn't want to sleep in the same room as a gun. I took her to a class, tried to get her comfortable with guns (she has never held or used one) - its just not happening.

    Karter
    Karter,

    You are writing about 'cover' from a wall. I have no idea what that wall is made of, but, are you sure it provides cover? Most walls may conceal your location, but will not stop a round. You write that the closet is totally out of the line of fire. Why? Again, is that because of the assumption that the walls will stop gunfire, or because the location of the closet makes it unlikely someone will shoot in that direction?

    Most walls are NOT cover. I can't say for sure about yours, but you need to be aware that there is a vast difference between cover (stopping rounds) and concealment (concealing your exact location).

    Finally, you can dislike the comment about 'manning up' to protect your family if you want. It is still true. If you are concerned and actively planning to protect your family, then do it. Wife doesn't like it? Sit down, listen to her, talk to her, explain why you've made the decisions you have, get her involved in any way possible, try to understand her exact concerns.

    But, stick to your guns, so to speak, IMO.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
    Albert Einstein

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    Ex Member Array Karter's Avatar
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    I know that bullets shoot through plaster. Its "soft" cover, making me a smaller target to them. They don't have any cover if they are trying to come through the door. I'm not saying its unassailable by determined opponents, but its not a bad position to defend.

    The closet is at the end of the bathroom and 90 degrees off of it. So to shoot into it they'd have to ignore me and shoot at a random angle of the bathroom wall, or shoot blindly at the bedroom wall.

    Should I line the closet with ceramic plates?

    The only real question I was trying to ask about in this thread, hardly anyone has addressed. And that is - if they don't enter the MB and I retrieve the gun but have to cross the house to secure my son - what is the best way to do it?

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Not to be rude, but I think that time was in the 50s.
    Well maybe I was born after my time then.

    The PC appeasement crap is what has gotten the country in to the mess it's in domesticly and internationaly.

    My wife is a nurse. She told me that she was thinking of applying to work at a prison. I told her to have fun being single again, as I wouldn't allow anyone I loved to set foot in a prison unless they were convicted of a crime. I was a CO once, I know what prisons are like.

    There are some things that are non-negotiable. For my wife, it's having a girlfriend. She won't let me have one no matter how nice I ask.

    If that offends you, I'm sorry, but that's the way it is. As far as what you think your question is, don't worry about it. You and your kid will most likely be dead before you can retreive your gun. The badguy will use your Pepper Spray to dominate and take control of your wife. In his mind he will think she looks funny gagging for her breath with watery eyes and begging for him to not kill her.

    Compromise has turned to avoiding the situation and appeasement, neither one of which is healthy for a long term marriage in my view. Compromise has to come from a position of power. If you don't have the power you have nothing to compromise on. You just have to take what "they" give you.

    I use "they" in a general term, not meaning just you and your wife. You each have to have boundries, but I'm not sensing that here. Sorry, but that's how I see it. There are things I put my foot down on. There are other things my wife puts her foot down on. We have to respect each other on those points or we will get a divorce.

    There is very little that my wife and I can't come to terms on. She is in no way subserviant to me, but she doesn't rule me either. She leaves the bloody work, hunting and heavy lifting for me, and I'm OK with that as a knuckle dragging Neanderthal. She orders Chinese Take Out with the best of them, hires a house cleaner and drives too fast and she's OK with that.



    Biker

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    My safety and mostly my family's are not negotiable.
    I get shot and I die, it's too bad, but its OK, I had a great life.
    My wife and/or my children get killed because I was "not a man" enough, my life would have been hell on earth.
    That's why I am like I am.

    I want them to have that time, even if I don't get to have all of mine. That is why I'm non-negotiable on some things.

    Karter, I realize you are new here, and I hope you stay. My poor reading comprehension made me miss the question that you were asking. I'm sorry about that.

    The reason I posted such a graphic, and that's the G-rated version, ending to your scenario is because that's how it really is in the real world. It's not pretty and people, especially badguys, are not nice. I could be more graphic, but it would most likely violate forum rules.

    The thing is, in defense of self, and others, you have to be able to be just like the badguy, but then know when to turn it off. Someone once asked me what a good day is. The best example I can give them is to watch "We Were Soldiers". Sam Elliot's character at the end exemplifies what a good day is. You are alive. Death may be all around you, but you are ALIVE!

    Compassion and empathy have no place in my vocabulary when things turn deadly. I may understand, and I do, but I don't have empathy or compassion at that point. That is why I am so non-negotiable.

    Take care and stay safe.

    Biker

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