Traffic Light Situation

Traffic Light Situation

This is a discussion on Traffic Light Situation within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; While it is true one has to survive the street before they can survive the courtroom. I contend that there are often other options available ...

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Thread: Traffic Light Situation

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Traffic Light Situation

    While it is true one has to survive the street before they can survive the courtroom. I contend that there are often other options available before one must even consider having to survive the courtroom for a lethal encounter in a lot of cases.

    Instead of having to "hijack" someone's thread, I'd like to relay something that happened to me a couple of nights ago, at an intersection, that may help to put things into perspective for some.

    I was sitting at a traffic light in the left hand lane going through the light, as I was going to turn left after the light. The car in the left hand turn lane got my attention, right quickly I might add. The driver took a gun from under his left leg and passed it to his passenger. This immediately got my attention, as I don't like having guns pointed at me, and this may turn into such an event. I dislike rounds coming in my direction even more.

    My strategy, eventhough sort of stuck in place was to immediately duck down in the seat and start driving out of the situation to create distance and give me better protection in the event that I was fired upon. Bear in mind, I was in my POV. My POV is a 4 door Toyota 4 x 4.

    Turn the wheel and "gas it", pushing the car ahead of me on my left into the intersection. If I got through that, great. I could then flee the scene. If not, I have created some distance before exiting my vehicle and could use the engine block as cover. My actions would also serve to alert people to see just what the heck was going on.

    I have no problem with going to court because I rammed three cars trying to flee someone intent on shooting at me while I'm sitting in my truck at an intersection. That's what insurance is for. It's still cheaper than getting into a shooting off duty. It would also be a lot less stressful.

    I really thought this was going to be one of those "drive-by" type things that happens at traffic lights around here all too frquently. I'm just thankful it wasn't. My first thought was not, "Oh great, I get to shoot;" but one of, how do I create distance to better enable me to survive a lethal encounter, and get my skinny butt to cover?

    By doing what I planned I would have glass, metal, door post and engine block to serve as better cover. I once told someone that I am a pacifist. He didn't believe me of course, but I assured him I was. Bear in mind, this was a real badguy, not a wanna-be or hanger-on. I told him to go about 600 Yards away from me and I would proceed to put a bullet in him. He looked at me and said, "You can do that?" I smiled at him, and he replied, "Da** I believe you could." I said, "Yes, with my Sharps, and it would be really peaceful for me."

    Distance is your friend, cover is an even better friend. If given a choice I'll take cover and then distance and finally the gun. I'm posting this so that people can get an idea of my perceptions and how I think. It has managed to keep me alive for a few years, but I have a few more to go before I retire. I'm also posting this because I don't want people to think that the only option they have is to respond with gunfire.

    It is legally and morally right to shoot someone, if certain conditions are met. It's just that sometimes we fail to see all the options available to us and focus on just using one tool, when it may not be the best one for the job at hand.

    "If the only tool you have is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail."

    Biker
    Last edited by BikerRN; July 20th, 2009 at 01:49 PM. Reason: typo


  2. #2
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    Absolute agreement!

    A vehicle is a great place to be if you are near a bad situation. This is because YOU CAN DRIVE AWAY FROM IT!

    Its both faster than I am and can go through things I can't. If have to choose between drive or draw, I'll choose drive every time.
    If you have never broken your gun or bled on your gun in training, you're doing it wrong!
    Train hard, live easy.

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    Did they arrest the guys whith gun???
    A Native Floridian = RARE


    IT'S OUR RIGHTS>THEY WANT TO WRONG
    H/D

  4. #4
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hogdaddy View Post
    Did they arrest the guys whith gun???
    For what?

    Driver just took a gun from under his leg and passed it to the passenger. There is nothing illegal about that. Please note, I stated that the situation, "may turn into such an event." I never stated it did.

    Thank you for bringing this up, as you bring another problem to the forefront. NOT EVERYBODY WITH A GUN IS A BADGUY! The thing is, I don't know if they were or not. I have no idea, and neither do you. Just because someone has a gun doesn't make them an automatic badguy.

    There are a lot of plausible explanations for why this might have happened, but until a crime is committed and I KNOW what is going on, I have nothing to call 911 for. Bear in mind, I was not working when this happened, as I was off duty.

    You may know you are a goodguy, but I don't, and most certainly the Police and bystanders don't either. How do you know who is who in a situation? Is that "scruffy looking guy" a cop that is holding a gun on that well dressed man in the nice suit, or is he an armed robber committing a felonious act?

    Be extra cautious about getting involved in stuff that you know nothing about. The consequences could be dire. BTW: off duty I often dress like a 1% er if that tells you anything. Things are not always what they seem.

    Biker

  5. #5
    Member Array cz2075bd's Avatar
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    ok, I'm confused. Did you actually push the other cars to create distance or are you saying that's what you considered? What was the final outcome with regard to the potential perp & the other bystanders?

  6. #6
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cz2075bd View Post
    ok, I'm confused. Did you actually push the other cars to create distance or are you saying that's what you considered? What was the final outcome with regard to the potential perp & the other bystanders?
    OK folks, I'll try to make this more clear.

    I observed the driver of a vehicle handing a gun to the passenger. I considered that this may turn into a situation that I don't want to be in. Using my Bionic Powers of Observation I knew how to get out of that situation if the "worst case scenario" took place. Worst case being defined as pointing/shooting a gun at me.

    SITUATIONAL AWARENESS FOLKS!!!

    Know where your cover is, and how to exit stage left. If you are carrying a gun you should always be looking.

    Class Quiz:

    Q: How can you tell two LEO's when they are talking to each other?

    A: They never look at each other.

    The point is, they are looking around and assessing constantly. Do I see everything? No, but I try to. Take care and stay safe.

    Biker

  7. #7
    Member Array muddy's Avatar
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    Ok so you take your mighty 4x4 Toy and try to push your way out of the situation all the while you could be taking fire? Say you do push another rig out of the way and into an intersection where the car gets broadsided and the occupants get killed. You just murdered another person or persons that maybe didn't have anything to do with you or the guy shooting at you. Why not take care of business with the person doing you harm instead of causing harm to someone else? Or how about the pedestrian that you run over because you are ducked down in the car and can't see where you are going?

    Q: How can you tell two LEO's when they are talking to each other?

    A: They never look at you because they think they are better then you. But get the same two guys alone and they are the nicest, talkative guys around.

  8. #8
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muddy View Post
    Ok so you take your mighty 4x4 Toy and try to push your way out of the situation all the while you could be taking fire? Say you do push another rig out of the way and into an intersection where the car gets broadsided and the occupants get killed. You just murdered another person or persons that maybe didn't have anything to do with you or the guy shooting at you. Why not take care of business with the person doing you harm instead of causing harm to someone else? Or how about the pedestrian that you run over because you are ducked down in the car and can't see where you are going?

    Q: How can you tell two LEO's when they are talking to each other?

    A: They never look at you because they think they are better then you. But get the same two guys alone and they are the nicest, talkative guys around.
    Obviously you missed the point.

    I'll leave that for better minds than me to try and explain it to you, as I would clearly be wasting my time with you.

    Biker

  9. #9
    Member Array muddy's Avatar
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    So you don't have an answer? I didn't miss the point. Your point was you would put distance between yourself and the BG no matter what it took or who you hurt. You are willing to hurt or even kill someone with your rig to get away. You are trying to stress situational awareness but you are not aware of all the consequences of your actions.

    The last Question answer was just in rebuttal to your deal. You wanted to show how cops are always looking at what is happening. Well I would hope so that is what they get paid to do and a good way to stay alive. My Q and A is how I see cops treat most of the general public when they are in a group and alone. Kinda like Frat boys and jocks.

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    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=BikerRN;1228939]Obviously you missed the point.

    I'll leave that for better minds than me to try and explain it to you, as I would clearly be wasting my time with you.

    The way you wrote the post,AS YOU WAS IN THE SITUATION not amginarry<spelling Thats how I read it
    A Native Floridian = RARE


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  11. #11
    VIP Member Array shooterX's Avatar
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    I read as he meant it, what he would attempt to do if the situation turned into a taking fire situation.

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    Distinguished Member Array PastorPack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shooterX View Post
    I read as he meant it, what he would attempt to do if the situation turned into a taking fire situation.
    +1. This is a great summertime thread, cause it's getting a little hot.

    I appreciate what Biker is communicating: It's wise to be reminded of the many options that would be available in a traffic situation. Thanks.

    Muddy has a point too about being aware of surroundings. Pushing a car into heavy traffic might be disastrous in some settings.

    I think the more we discuss these issues, the more aware we can be of what our options are in a BAD situation.

    Just my take.
    God is love (1 John 4:8)

  13. #13
    Member Array Toml's Avatar
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    It would be simpler to leave enough space to pull out instead of bulldozing someone's bumper.

    I keep the tires ahead of me in sight of my 4Runner 4WD for this reason.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array 1911PKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toml View Post
    It would be simpler to leave enough space to pull out instead of bulldozing someone's bumper.

    I keep the tires ahead of me in sight of my 4Runner 4WD for this reason.
    Yep, +1. Not to mention, the driver's natural instinct in front of you is going to push the break through the floorboard. You're vehicle will likely stall under that load.
    "Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom" Gen. George Patton

  15. #15
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Ok, just to clarify.

    Would I ram, dent and scratch a strangers car to get to safety? You bet your sweet behind I would and I would call anyone that says otherwise a liar if it was them in the situation and they were trying to flee.

    As for muddy's muddlings and worrying about pushing other cars into traffic and such. One car would've been pushed in to the Crosswalk. I would've scraped another's front end along my truck. Is that an acceptable risk? In my mind yes, because their were no pedestrians in the crosswalk at that time, as it was 0'Dark:30. As far as broadsided and killed. unlikely but possible. I considered the options available to me and that was the better otion.

    Let's say that I couldn't get my truck through the opening, as my Toy just wasn't truck enough to move another vehicle. I still created distance and could exit my vehicle and use the engine block for cover. That is better than trying to get in a gunfight from the seat of the truck.

    Do I care if I scrath your paint job at that point? Nope, not in the least. If that offends you, my apologies sir, but I really don't care. Insurance will pay for a new bumper and a can of paint for your Pinto or your Rolls Royce, I care not.

    Biker

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