NY castle doctrine

This is a discussion on NY castle doctrine within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have been trying to find some clear information online in regards to NYS version of the castle doctrine. I have not been very successful. ...

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Thread: NY castle doctrine

  1. #1
    Member Array bgcole's Avatar
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    NY castle doctrine

    I have been trying to find some clear information online in regards to NYS version of the castle doctrine. I have not been very successful. I did read a handbook given from the suffolk county (i live in monroe) DA that gave me some...and ive pieced together some from other sites....

    1) One of my biggest questions is does this extend to my car in NYS?

    2) One of the articles i found looked to be the actual bill which said non lethal force could be used basically under any circumstances but lethal force had some rules.... If someone breaks into my house in the night, i don't care what they think they are doing from stealing my broken $5 VCR to harming my wife and kids. Does anyone have the facts on what the law says for this in NY?

    3) How stupid am i for living in NY? Basically it seems that i can own and carry a gun but if i ever have to use it, even if completely justified--i'm screwed....

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    Ex Member Array thylordjj's Avatar
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    The law in NY regarding use of force is article 35 of the penal code... read here ...
    Article 35 - Penal Law - Defense of Justification

    NY does NOT have a true "castle doctrine" law

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    2. A person may not use deadly physical force upon another person under circumstances specified in subdivision one unless: (a) He reasonably believes that such other person is using or about to use deadly physical force. Even in such case, however, the actor may not use deadly physical force if he knows that he can with complete safety as to himself and others avoid the necessity of so doing by retreating; except that he is under no duty to retreat if he is: (i) in his dwelling and not the initial aggressor; or (ii) a police officer or peace officer or a person assisting a police officer or a peace officer at the latter`s direction, acting pursuant to section 35.30; or (b) He reasonably believes that such other person is committing or attempting to commit a kidnapping, forcible rape, forcible sodomy or robbery; or (c) He reasonably believes that such other person is committing or attempting to commit a burglary, and the circumstances are such that the use of deadly physical force is authorized by subdivision three of section 35.20.

    S 35.20 Justification; use of physical force in defense of premises and in defense of a person in the course of burglary. 1. Any person may use physical force upon another person when he or she reasonably believes such to be necessary to prevent or terminate what he or she reasonably believes to be the commission or attempted commission by such other person of a crime involving damage to premises. Such person may use any degree of physical force, other than deadly physical force, which he or she reasonably believes to be necessary for such purpose, and may use deadly physical force if he or she reasonably believes such to be necessary to prevent or terminate the commission or attempted commission of arson.

    As far as carjacking the phrase in the above: ""He reasonably believes that such other person is committing or attempting to commit a kidnapping, forcible rape, forcible sodomy or robbery"" seems to fit.

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    Last edited by boscobeans; July 20th, 2009 at 02:33 PM. Reason: adding a line

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    Quote Originally Posted by thylordjj View Post
    The law in NY regarding use of force is article 35 of the penal code... read here ...
    Article 35 - Penal Law - Defense of Justification

    NY does NOT have a true "castle doctrine" law
    Actually NY is considered a weak castle doctrine. The state gives you the right to use deadly force to protect your home and individuals in it. Some states, such as Virginia, does not even give you that lead way. Each and every shooting is looked at by the DA to determine if shooting was justified. Shoot someone who is unarmed and chances are you are facing a trial.

    As to the OP's third question.

    3) How stupid am i for living in NY? Basically it seems that i can own and carry a gun but if i ever have to use it, even if completely justified--i'm screwed....

    If you have to ask the question I think you already know the answer.

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    Senior Member Array darkvibe's Avatar
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    I've taken quite a bit of training in NY and every single class has said although the law says that you have no duty to retreat when you are inside your home, there is case law that says you have to be in danger to use deadly force.

    No one has ever provided so much as the name of the case that set that standard. If anyone knows anything about it please post here. I've done a lot of looking and I can not find a case that decided that.

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    Senior Member Array 2edgesword's Avatar
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    "3) How stupid am i for living in NY? Basically it seems that i can own and carry a gun but if i ever have to use it, even if completely justified--i'm screwed...."

    You're in Rochester so you're not as stupid as those living in NYC :).

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    That is pretty weak. Here in Ks. You have NO duty to retreat from anywhere you can legally be at.
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    Senior Member Array Moga's Avatar
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    Isn't a component of castle doctrine protection against frivolous civil lawsuits brought against the armed citizen after a legitimate shoot? That's the part of the statute that I value just as much as the removal of duty to retreat.

    As another has already advised, be familiar with how previous applications of the flavor of castle doctrine in your AO have been applied. The wording of the law is one thing. Its application is quite another.
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    Member Array bgcole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moga View Post
    Isn't a component of castle doctrine protection against frivolous civil lawsuits brought against the armed citizen after a legitimate shoot? That's the part of the statute that I value just as much as the removal of duty to retreat.

    As another has already advised, be familiar with how previous applications of the flavor of castle doctrine in your AO have been applied. The wording of the law is one thing. Its application is quite another.
    Thats really good advice. I am looking...

    Im also going to a lecture about this on Wednesday so i will let you know how that goes...

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    I believe the NY 'Castle Doctrine' reads something like this...
    "If someone breaks into your castle, you are required to leave your castle...immediately...if assistance is requested by the intruder for help in moving TV's and stereo equipment into his truck, you must comply."


    Do I think you should move? A rhetorical question, right?

    Here in FL, I have the right to defend myself without any requirement to retreat from my home, my car, or any place that I have a legal right to be...

    ...sarcasm on...In TX, I think you can just 'shoot em'...done deal!...sarcasm off...
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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    In Tx if they break in to your home , you can just shoot them ,done deal,no duty to tetreat,no lawsuit,no trial,no sarcasm.Down here by the Border in Mcallen Tx they just raided a home that they believe the ringleader of a group of professional home invaders was hiding in,these guys were dressing up like DEA agents and breaking into peoples houses.Scary as heck,because even I would hesitate for a second to determine if they indeed were Federal agents before firing.I don't do anything that would be a reason for cops to raid my house,but they have hit wrong addresses before and I really do not want to shoot any good guys even if it's their mistake,neither do I want to be shot by a BG thinking they are good guys
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
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    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    That's NYC. Thank your mayor.

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    YUP shoot call 911 to clean up the mess
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    I live in NYC/NYS. If some criminal comes into my house and commits or attempts to commint a Burglary 1st degree(act of tresspassing + commit a violent felony) they will have DPF used on them and I will be completly jusified as per NYS PENAL LAW 35. We dont need a Castle Doctrine in NY. Its written into our laws
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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OffDutyCCWNY View Post
    I live in NYC/NYS. If some criminal comes into my house and commits or attempts to commint a Burglary 1st degree(act of tresspassing + commit a violent felony) they will have DPF used on them and I will be completly jusified as per NYS PENAL LAW 35. We dont need a Castle Doctrine in NY. Its written into our laws
    What if they claim they heard you had really good lemonade and were just stopping by for a social call
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
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