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Drawing on a family member?...

2K views 29 replies 30 participants last post by  thebigdl86 
#1 ·
I was wondering if anyone would draw on someone who threatens them with a bat? The Craigslist ambush in Chicago where an offduty cop was assaulted with a bat (and a firearm) comes to mind.

Lets say the person who threatened you was a family member. I don't want to post a link but if you go to youtube and look up "Greatest Freakout Ever 3" (PM me if you want the link) you will see a kid flip out and start beating his car with a bat. Be warned there is a use of the "F" word by the father I believe and it is very easy to miss but I would rather not post it. Then he turns and threatens his Dad with the bat when he tries to stop him.

We talk about carrying for defense of ourselves, but what about when the person threatening us is family or a close friend? I do believe that the majority of victims of violent crimes (rape, murder, assault/battery) are family members on other family members. Now the question is would you draw a firearm on family?
 
#2 ·
Well, I hate to think about that but it is a good question.

I think that if a family member freaked out and had a deadly weapon in their hand and was threatening other family members, I would draw if need be. But only if there was no other option, just the same as if it was someone other than a family member. Option of last resort.
 
#3 ·
Yes, I would.... if they are endangering and threatening my life. I would defend myself against 'anyone' who is threatening to take my life. May hate to do it, but .... if they are about to do you in, how many choices are they leaving you ?

Now, a baseball bat, I'ld just kick his butt.
 
#4 · (Edited)
I have had difficulties with a 'family' (outlaw) member who presented some particular difficulties. In his presentation to me, he realized, I think, that this old man was not as easy pickins' as he may have originally suspected.
We did not have to go down a long dark road...he's in prison in Ohio now (for a long time)...a good place for him.

When a relative becomes a challenge for me or my family, then he/she has crossed the line from 'family' to dirtbag...then all dirtbag rules clearly apply.

OMOYMV :yup:
 
#5 ·
I have had the unfortunate expirience of having to draw on a family member or take a knife in the gut.

Mom drinks sometimes and being as I had no way to retreat when she came at me, making a slashing and sticking motion with the knife, I reverted to my training. When I drew she stopped and I disarmed her. This was all at contact distance. I was then able to leave the house, as I had to get by her to get out of the kitchen.

I came back the next morning and she didn't remember the incident. I will say, I sure as heck do, and I never want to relive it again. This was not the first time she has done something like this, but it does rank as the worst for me, in my mind.

I waited a split second longer than I would've for anyone else only because she is my mother. Anyone else would've gotten up to five .357 Magnum 125 Grain JHP's. As you may guess, I don't spend a lot of time with her now, and only on my terms. I will make sure she has food, shelter and basic care, but other than that not much else.

So, in answer to the question, I already have and would again if put in the same situation, as I had no way to exit the kitchen and she was not letting me past her. I just thank God that she stopped when she did because no matter how you cut this, pun intended, it would've been one domestic trial I wouldn't want to have been involved in. The local LEO's would've seen it as a "domestic" and as sure as Christ made little green apples I'd be a defendant in a trial.

Biker
 
#7 ·
I know that drawing can save a life and get you out of a dangerous situation (it has for me a few times) but EVERY time I was ready and willing (not wanting, but willing) to pull that trigger.

I think that if the answer to the OP's question is no for you then you really need to rethink why you carry and if you should carry.

THAT bing said, there really is only one situation that I can think of and it is so unlikely that I paused before even mentioning it or thinking more on it myself...but this is why this forum is here...

I would not draw (and thus be willing/shoot) a family member or loved one if in some way my life being taken meant that their's being spared. That really MUST be prefaced by saying that their act of aggresson was in some way an act of a medication or ??? and it was a one time thing!

An example (although made up) is your spouse having a nightmare of some sort and acting aggresivly toward you. My understanding of this is that it really can only happen to good folks if there is a drug altering their state of mind.

I know this is an obscure thing and HIGHLY unlikely, but I found it to be the only scenario that I could think of where the answer to the OP's question would be no.
 
#8 ·
It seems to me that a significant % of homicides are perpetrated by family members, are they not?

That answers the question for me.......
 
#9 ·
I was 8 or 9 years old and watched my brother (12 years old) draw a 30.06 on a drunken abusive step father! Scared the @%#! out of me.

I now realize how bad things could have turned out, but the situation thankfully was defused after that. In fact that man never came back home (which probably saved my Mom's life) after looking down what must of seemed like a 16" gun barrel!!
 
#13 ·
I think this points to a really good reason why the gun needs to be the last tool in your arsenal and not the first tool.

Kid is beating the car with a bat. So? He turns on you, there are other things short of pulling the gun that might be done. Can you throw dirt in his face, move in and disarm?

What about just stepping back and let him flail away at the air, then car again?
What about pepper spray?

Especially since it is a kid and it is family, you want to do as little harm as possible.

Also, just because it is an out of control kid doesn't mean the adults around didn't do something to cause the outburst. I'm not blaming, but want to make the point that a self-defense shooting might not fly for the defender using a gun if they were part of what caused the outburst.

Unless drugs, alcohol and mental illness made it unlikely that the kid would settle down after venting, I'd sure not want to shoot a relative.

Again, I really think we all need more in our arsenal of tricks than a carry gun. Pepper spray at a minimum. Some martial arts training if you have the time, ability, and can train to a point where you are effective.
 
#16 ·
I am not willing to be murdered by anyone.
If there was any possible way to avoid it I'd do it, same goes for a non family member. They are no less human. For a family member I'd be more willing to go to the edge before doing what is necessary. When you have no choice, you have no choice. It sure would be an unbelievably crappy situation to be put in. One good thing is that drawing often prevents the eventual need to fire.
This was a very good question, very thought provoking.
 
#27 ·
Could'nt of said it better
 
#18 ·
If the presentation of my Sig does not seem to deter them, I might drop a .45 into the dirt in front of his feet as an "attention-getter"... but I have no interest in lying in a hospital bed for the rest of my life in a persistent vegetative state eating from a tube in my nose...

Family gets a warning shot... but a stranger with a Louisville Slugger...? Call the cops, and tell them to bring a mop...
 
#19 ·
Depends on the family member and circumstances. I'd like to think that I would never ever have to on my husband and son. Any other family member though, I don't know. If they're a threat to the life and safety of me or mine, I don't care how much blood or legal/marital bonds we share. A threat is a threat and should be treated as such. I'm not going to risk death, stabbing, a beating, rape, etc, just because we share blood or a common legal binding. (In-laws, etc) And oh yeah, we've got some real peaches in the family trees. Habitual substance abusers, repeat offenders, etc. I don't see someone who is a clear and present danger as "family," I see them as a "threat." Period.

That should be a no-brainer, shouldn't it?
 
#22 ·
I won't get into the details, but my first impression upon meeting my wayward daughter's boyfriend, now the father of my granddaughter, was to get the gun. I didn't. I have never had that impression before or since on anyone else I have ever met.

He is a first rate creep who should be in prison but he isn't. I have had a restraining order before on him and he is a felony waiting to happen.

I don't even want to think about what might happen if he ever decides to get some kind of revenge upon us. He is capable of doing that.
 
#23 · (Edited)
I wouldn't shoot my own kids to save my life. I would to save my wife's life. Outside of immediate family I have considerable leeway for offensive behavior, but there is a line they better not cross.

Divorce situations come to mind. A non-relative X shows up I'll treat that like any home invasion.

Everyone on the thread talks about the daughter's scumbag boyfriend. "In a heart-beat" is my response. I've had nieces that had stalking boyfriends that entered houses illegally, killed pets and hung them from doorknobs. These are people that you wish would give you a valid reason under valid circumstances. But they are not family members so maybe that's irrelevant.
 
#25 ·
I have 2 stepdaughters which have had major drug problems, making them irrational and potentially dangerous to anybody around them. Both associated with drug users, pushers and other lowlife types. There was a time when I serously thought I might have to defend my wife and myself from them and their friends. I would have done whatever it took to do so.

Both have cleaned up their act and have been drug free for some time now, but they, and I, made some enemys of their former "friends", including at least one gang member who is a felon with drug and weapon convictions. Dealing with those types was my final incentive to get my CCW and carry everywhere, every day.
 
#28 ·
If the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. You need to have a force continuum which goes from non-physical to lethal (firearm), and everything in between, with your firearm being the absolute last resort.

At the same time, I don't have any of my criminology resources with me here, but an appalling number of violent crimes are perpetrated by family members or people close to the victims.

All that being said, and knowing my H2H skills as opposed to those of my family members, I have a hard time seeing it progress beyond that level for any reason. And I hope it never even makes it that far.
 
#29 ·
I agree with some members here about the reaction depending on exactly which family member is the offender. My answer is solely based on empathy for the situation, as I don't have kids, keep limited contact with extended family, and my close family is great. If it were one of the extended, yes I would, if necessary. A child, my folks, grandparents, etc.... heck no. I would find someway to deal with that. If my own child put me in a position like that with a baseball bat, I would probably grab a 2x4 and offer some tough love.

It really does make you think about family vs. others. Though you may have to respond to these situations differently, you can often avoid it by choosing what people are part of your life and avoid situations like this... in theory.
 
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