Drawing on a family member?...

This is a discussion on Drawing on a family member?... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I was wondering if anyone would draw on someone who threatens them with a bat? The Craigslist ambush in Chicago where an offduty cop was ...

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Thread: Drawing on a family member?...

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    Ex Member Array Oldskoolfan's Avatar
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    Drawing on a family member?...

    I was wondering if anyone would draw on someone who threatens them with a bat? The Craigslist ambush in Chicago where an offduty cop was assaulted with a bat (and a firearm) comes to mind.

    Lets say the person who threatened you was a family member. I don't want to post a link but if you go to youtube and look up "Greatest Freakout Ever 3" (PM me if you want the link) you will see a kid flip out and start beating his car with a bat. Be warned there is a use of the "F" word by the father I believe and it is very easy to miss but I would rather not post it. Then he turns and threatens his Dad with the bat when he tries to stop him.

    We talk about carrying for defense of ourselves, but what about when the person threatening us is family or a close friend? I do believe that the majority of victims of violent crimes (rape, murder, assault/battery) are family members on other family members. Now the question is would you draw a firearm on family?

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    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    Well, I hate to think about that but it is a good question.

    I think that if a family member freaked out and had a deadly weapon in their hand and was threatening other family members, I would draw if need be. But only if there was no other option, just the same as if it was someone other than a family member. Option of last resort.
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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Yes, I would.... if they are endangering and threatening my life. I would defend myself against 'anyone' who is threatening to take my life. May hate to do it, but .... if they are about to do you in, how many choices are they leaving you ?

    Now, a baseball bat, I'ld just kick his butt.

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    I have had difficulties with a 'family' (outlaw) member who presented some particular difficulties. In his presentation to me, he realized, I think, that this old man was not as easy pickins' as he may have originally suspected.
    We did not have to go down a long dark road...he's in prison in Ohio now (for a long time)...a good place for him.

    When a relative becomes a challenge for me or my family, then he/she has crossed the line from 'family' to dirtbag...then all dirtbag rules clearly apply.

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    I have had the unfortunate expirience of having to draw on a family member or take a knife in the gut.

    Mom drinks sometimes and being as I had no way to retreat when she came at me, making a slashing and sticking motion with the knife, I reverted to my training. When I drew she stopped and I disarmed her. This was all at contact distance. I was then able to leave the house, as I had to get by her to get out of the kitchen.

    I came back the next morning and she didn't remember the incident. I will say, I sure as heck do, and I never want to relive it again. This was not the first time she has done something like this, but it does rank as the worst for me, in my mind.

    I waited a split second longer than I would've for anyone else only because she is my mother. Anyone else would've gotten up to five .357 Magnum 125 Grain JHP's. As you may guess, I don't spend a lot of time with her now, and only on my terms. I will make sure she has food, shelter and basic care, but other than that not much else.

    So, in answer to the question, I already have and would again if put in the same situation, as I had no way to exit the kitchen and she was not letting me past her. I just thank God that she stopped when she did because no matter how you cut this, pun intended, it would've been one domestic trial I wouldn't want to have been involved in. The local LEO's would've seen it as a "domestic" and as sure as Christ made little green apples I'd be a defendant in a trial.

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    Member Array Precision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post

    When a relative becomes a challenge for me or my family, then he/she has crossed the line from 'family' to dirtbag...then all dirtbag rules clearly apply.

    OMOYMV
    I completely agree.

    Blood may be thicker than water, but My blood is much more sacred to me than anyone else's.

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    Senior Member Array nosights's Avatar
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    I know that drawing can save a life and get you out of a dangerous situation (it has for me a few times) but EVERY time I was ready and willing (not wanting, but willing) to pull that trigger.

    I think that if the answer to the OP's question is no for you then you really need to rethink why you carry and if you should carry.

    THAT bing said, there really is only one situation that I can think of and it is so unlikely that I paused before even mentioning it or thinking more on it myself...but this is why this forum is here...

    I would not draw (and thus be willing/shoot) a family member or loved one if in some way my life being taken meant that their's being spared. That really MUST be prefaced by saying that their act of aggresson was in some way an act of a medication or ??? and it was a one time thing!

    An example (although made up) is your spouse having a nightmare of some sort and acting aggresivly toward you. My understanding of this is that it really can only happen to good folks if there is a drug altering their state of mind.

    I know this is an obscure thing and HIGHLY unlikely, but I found it to be the only scenario that I could think of where the answer to the OP's question would be no.
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    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    It seems to me that a significant % of homicides are perpetrated by family members, are they not?

    That answers the question for me.......
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."

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    Senior Member Array 2ndsupporter's Avatar
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    I was 8 or 9 years old and watched my brother (12 years old) draw a 30.06 on a drunken abusive step father! Scared the @%#! out of me.

    I now realize how bad things could have turned out, but the situation thankfully was defused after that. In fact that man never came back home (which probably saved my Mom's life) after looking down what must of seemed like a 16" gun barrel!!
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    Member Array billfromtx's Avatar
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    Thats a hard question..
    I'm not sure I have it in me to point a gun at my kids.
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    Neither of which is Marine Corps policy.

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    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    A lot of my family members yes, my kids no.
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    VIP Member Array HKinNY's Avatar
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    Now the harder question COM? or to the leg? shoulder?

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    I think this points to a really good reason why the gun needs to be the last tool in your arsenal and not the first tool.

    Kid is beating the car with a bat. So? He turns on you, there are other things short of pulling the gun that might be done. Can you throw dirt in his face, move in and disarm?

    What about just stepping back and let him flail away at the air, then car again?
    What about pepper spray?

    Especially since it is a kid and it is family, you want to do as little harm as possible.

    Also, just because it is an out of control kid doesn't mean the adults around didn't do something to cause the outburst. I'm not blaming, but want to make the point that a self-defense shooting might not fly for the defender using a gun if they were part of what caused the outburst.

    Unless drugs, alcohol and mental illness made it unlikely that the kid would settle down after venting, I'd sure not want to shoot a relative.

    Again, I really think we all need more in our arsenal of tricks than a carry gun. Pepper spray at a minimum. Some martial arts training if you have the time, ability, and can train to a point where you are effective.

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    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HITCH KING View Post
    Now the harder question COM? or to the leg? shoulder?
    Depends on the threat... if they're threatening with a contact weapon, I'd probably go for the pelvic girdle. If a gun, then shoot to stop the threat. Thankfully, all the drunks/whackos in my family live 16 hours away.

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    Member Array kohburn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I think this points to a really good reason why the gun needs to be the last tool in your arsenal and not the first tool.

    Kid is beating the car with a bat. So? He turns on you, there are other things short of pulling the gun that might be done. Can you throw dirt in his face, move in and disarm?

    What about just stepping back and let him flail away at the air, then car again?
    What about pepper spray?

    Especially since it is a kid and it is family, you want to do as little harm as possible.

    Also, just because it is an out of control kid doesn't mean the adults around didn't do something to cause the outburst. I'm not blaming, but want to make the point that a self-defense shooting might not fly for the defender using a gun if they were part of what caused the outburst.

    Unless drugs, alcohol and mental illness made it unlikely that the kid would settle down after venting, I'd sure not want to shoot a relative.

    Again, I really think we all need more in our arsenal of tricks than a carry gun. Pepper spray at a minimum. Some martial arts training if you have the time, ability, and can train to a point where you are effective.
    a perfect example why carrying some spray, tazer and/or a baton are complementary to carrying a firearm.
    "An armed society is a polite society" - Robert A. Heinlein

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