Question about the "guy jumped out of the dark" thread - Page 2

Question about the "guy jumped out of the dark" thread

This is a discussion on Question about the "guy jumped out of the dark" thread within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I had a similar situation where I called them and they came by to get a report. I put my gun up before I went ...

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 69
  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    7,785
    I had a similar situation where I called them and they came by to get a report.

    I put my gun up before I went out to talk to them. One, asked me why it took me so long to answer the door (1 min ? ). I told him, I was taking my gun off and securing it. He told me.... "if you would have come out here with a gun I would have shot you ". The other officer asked "why ? " , it wouldn't have bothered him at all ( he knows my background in the system). We ended up having a loooong conversation about all this. Officer # 1, is no longer an LEO.

    So, it all depends upon what LEO you run into and their attitude as to how that could all come out. I would put the gun up and be safe.


  2. #17
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    State of Discombobulation
    Posts
    5,253
    So, it all depends upon what LEO you run into and their attitude as to how that could all come out. I would put the gun up and be safe.
    Last edited by BikerRN; August 4th, 2009 at 02:37 AM. Reason: typo

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Hickory, NC
    Posts
    2,781
    A bit of a different scenario but I was recently OC'ing and was involved in an accident. I kept the firearm on me till LEO arrived, it was Highway Patrol FWIW. I had called the accident in since my truck was struck by another vehicle. When he approached my vehicle I informed him that I was armed and asked if he would like me to put the firearm in my truck. Needless to say he took care of unholstering the firearm and clearing it. We then locked it in my truck. Basically we were being detained while the report was being investigated/written. During a detention the officer more than likely will disarm you. The officer told me it was SOP to disarm me during an accident investigation. My feeling was once he was on scene then I was confortable being disarmed, but not before that. It's a fine line between having your rights violated and officer safety. How I react would depend on the situation and why I was interacting with the officer. If I call them to my house I expect them to ask me to disarm, even though I can legally carry.

  4. #19
    DM2
    DM2 is offline
    Member Array DM2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    259
    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    I'm not going to go digging through thousands of cases, but I'll narrow it down for you.

    It's called Officer Safety.

    The courts have routinely upheld that an officer may disarm you during his or her interaction with you for their safety. If you don't like that, don't call 911.

    Biker
    Wolverine,
    I found this on the Michigan State Police website. It's not a quote of law, but suggestions. I'm constantly searching for what MI laws says on a lot of things that I see posted here on DC just to see if I can find out what applies to me as a MI resident.

    To Ensure Safety During Police Encounters
    If you are stopped by a law enforcement officer you should:
    Keep your hands where an officer can see them.
    Cooperate fully with the police officer.
    If you have a gun with you, tell the police officer as soon as possible.
    Do not make any quick movements, especially toward the weapon.
    If in a vehicle at night, turn on your vehicle's dome light.
    In certain circumstances, a law enforcement officer may take temporary possession of the weapon during interaction with the individual to ensure the safety of the officer and others. The police officer will return the pistol at the end of the stop unless the individual is being charged with a violation of the act or any other law that allows for the weapon to be seized
    .

    I'm not trying to be a smartie pants, but why would you want to put the police on the defensive when you know that they know you are armed? I have many friends that are LEO and they all have the same goal....to go home safely to their families when their shift is over. As a law abiding citizen, I would want to help and make their job easier not more difficult and tense.
    DM2
    "I did the thing I feared the most. Excuse me while I cheer. Now here I stand a stronger soul and all I lost was fear." ...Anonymous

  5. #20
    Member Array Holger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    405
    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    It's your castle, but you are the one that called for the knights to ride forth and defend the castle.

    Therefore they are well within their rights and legal precident to tell you to disarm. It's no longer your sandbox. You ceded said sandbox to them when you called 911. It is now theirs, and you will play by their rules.

    If you don't want to play by those rules, don't call 911.

    Biker
    Why do you always try to be a bad*** on these boards, Biker?

    In this particular case, I think it's prudent to disarm. I'd do so after the cops showed up and prior to interacting with them, if that's what they desire. However, me calling 911 does not mean I give up all my Constitutional rights. All your talk about knights riding forth and ceding sandboxes (not the first time you've used that juvenile analogy) sounds like a puffed up LEO out to run roughshod over bad guy and law-abiding citizen alike.

    Hope you're not in my state.

  6. #21
    Member Array wolfshead's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Renton WA
    Posts
    493
    I think the person who calls 911 needs to disarm before the LEOs arrive for their safety as well as the fact that the LEOs do not know the situation 100%.

    However, if for some reason, the good guy is holding the BG at bay with his gun, at what point in time should he secure his gun without running the risk of the BG getting away/attacking him?
    Vince K
    Aerospace Designer, Freemason, NRA member

  7. #22
    Senior Member Array JohnK87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Hastings, MN
    Posts
    600
    When the police arrive, you put the weapon on the ground and follow their directions. Until they have secured the scene, you may be searched or even handcuffed.

    You make it a little easier if you inform the 911 operator you are armed and what you are wearing, and that you have someone being held for them.
    ‎An enemy of liberty is no friend of mine. I do not owe respect to anyone who would enslave me by government force, nor is it wise for such a person to expect it. -- Isaiah Amberay

  8. #23
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    State of Discombobulation
    Posts
    5,253

    Holger

    You can always use the "Ignore" feature.

    I did, and it has made my life much less aggravating. The only reason I saw/read your post was because I decided to take you off the "Ignore" list and read what you wrote.

    Not to worry, you went right back on the "Ignore" list. Life is much less aggravating. If my style of writing is aggravating to you, please ignore me.

    Biker
    Last edited by BikerRN; August 4th, 2009 at 11:13 PM. Reason: typo

  9. #24
    Member Array Holger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    405
    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    Life is much less aggravating. If my style of writing is aggravating to you, please ignore me.

    Biker
    It's not your writing style, Biker. It's your attitude.

    I'll keep you off my list, though, which totals zero. If I act like a clown, I expect people to tell me. And I'm not afraid to hear it.

  10. #25
    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,452
    I've noticed that when discussing ones rights. Common Sense is some times lost in the discussion. I always look at safety first. After all, when failing to use common sense, when it comes to safety. You may not be around to exercise you rights.

    Just my thoughts, opinions may vary.
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
    -Tony Soprano

  11. #26
    Member Array muddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    320
    I don't understand. You all stand up for your rights and say its my right to carry and what not. Then about everyone that posted on this thread says yes I would disarm or be disarmed because its all about safety. Well are you not being treated like a criminal? Can you not be trusted with a weapon?

    Some of you would fully put your life in a cops hands and say since the cop is there I feel safe to be disarmed. Well you do not know this cop, what he will do under stress, or if he can even hit a thing with his pistol.

    I don't get it, one minute this forum is spouting off about gun owner rights and you ain't taking my gun and the next its saying sure treat me like a no account criminal, take my gun.

    Dose a cop have a right to disarm you if you see him in a grocery store and you stop to chat with him? What difference is there from chatting with a cop in a store about the weather and filling out a report about a guy jumping out of the bushes on a trail by your house. Nothing that I can see. Same with a car accident, what gives them a right to disarm you then? Every time I pass a cop in a parking lot should I tell him I have a weapon and should I disarm?

    I really figured this thread would have went the other way.

  12. #27
    Member Array swatspyder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    157
    Quote Originally Posted by muddy View Post
    I don't understand. You all stand up for your rights and say its my right to carry and what not. Then about everyone that posted on this thread says yes I would disarm or be disarmed because its all about safety. Well are you not being treated like a criminal? Can you not be trusted with a weapon?

    Some of you would fully put your life in a cops hands and say since the cop is there I feel safe to be disarmed. Well you do not know this cop, what he will do under stress, or if he can even hit a thing with his pistol.

    I don't get it, one minute this forum is spouting off about gun owner rights and you ain't taking my gun and the next its saying sure treat me like a no account criminal, take my gun.

    Dose a cop have a right to disarm you if you see him in a grocery store and you stop to chat with him? What difference is there from chatting with a cop in a store about the weather and filling out a report about a guy jumping out of the bushes on a trail by your house. Nothing that I can see. Same with a car accident, what gives them a right to disarm you then? Every time I pass a cop in a parking lot should I tell him I have a weapon and should I disarm?

    I really figured this thread would have went the other way.

  13. #28
    Member Array Holger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    405
    Well said, Muddy. Inviting the cops into your sandbox doesn't abrogate your rights under the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 8th Amendments. Or any other one. Sorry, Biker.

  14. #29
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,662

    Has nothing to do with rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Holger View Post
    Well said, Muddy. Inviting the cops into your sandbox doesn't abrogate your rights under the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 8th Amendments. Or any other one. Sorry, Biker.
    You don't give up your rights, but if you are holding a gun when you invite the cops in there is too much room for misunderstanding and then and you may not be around to complain that your rights weren't protected.

    Have a little mercy on the poor guys who answer these kind of calls. What's so wrong with giving some cooperation?

    One time a number of years back my wife accidentally dialed 911 and hung up. Sure, I could have come to the door when the officer arrived wearing my gun in an owb. It was after all, my right. (I knew he was on the way because the 911 operator called back and told me they had to send one to make sure all was o.k.) But, that would not have been a wise thing to do. It takes no imagination to know how the cop, answering a 911 call and not knowing who I am, would respond to that.

    This issue has nothing whatsoever to do with rights and a great deal to do with courtesy and with caution, and with being decent to the fellow or gal coming over to help out.

  15. #30
    Member Array MedPig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Bensalem, PA
    Posts
    119
    Yeah, as a retired cop, I'm NOT about to stand in front of someone who's level of training I don't know, motives I don't know, and allow any weapons around that aren't on MY body. Yeah, I'm as 2A as everyone else here, but during "Officer Survival Week" in the academy, we got a taste of every possible way it could go wrong.

    My job is to go home at the end of the shift. Period. I don't care if I hurt your feelings, bruise your tender pride, or insult your mother. I'm going home intact.

    You can have your gun back when I'm done with you.
    Guns don't kill people.
    Gaping wounds in vital organs do.
    ============
    NRA Life Member
    Colt M1911A1 / H&K USP45

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. RVA-"Youtube Beating" wives lifelong friend got jumped (link to news)
    By Ghettokracker71 in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: January 28th, 2011, 08:05 PM
  2. "danced around the officers," jumped into their cruiser and sped off.
    By DaveH in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: March 4th, 2009, 12:40 AM
  3. HELP! The "Dark Side" of the force is so strong!
    By Thumper in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: October 13th, 2006, 03:39 AM

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» DefensiveCarry Sponsors