Question about the "guy jumped out of the dark" thread - Page 3

Question about the "guy jumped out of the dark" thread

This is a discussion on Question about the "guy jumped out of the dark" thread within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by muddy I don't understand. You all stand up for your rights and say its my right to carry and what not. Then ...

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  1. #31
    Member Array MedPig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muddy View Post
    I don't understand. You all stand up for your rights and say its my right to carry and what not. Then about everyone that posted on this thread says yes I would disarm or be disarmed because its all about safety. Well are you not being treated like a criminal? Can you not be trusted with a weapon?
    Okay, a 911 call goes in, we don't know what the problem is. I get there, you are running around with a gun on, playing Constitutional Professor with me, refusing to keep your hands away from your weapon, or to otherwise follow directions. You WILL be proned out at gun-point, and any move you make after I start giving directions, will be interpreted as hostile.

    If you have a gun in a holster, and I have a shotgun aimed at your head, which one of us is in control of the situtation? That would NOT be the time to point out you have a right to carry it, wave it, or anything else. The smart thing to do is follow the nice officer's instructions.

    Are you being treated like a criminal? Probably, the way you see it. Have criminals painted barrels on REAL guns orange, to claim they are toys? Sure. Have criminals tried to flee bank robberies by running with the hostages? Sure. Have criminals ever attempted o make pre-emptive strikes on cops? All the time. So, should I just sing Kumbayah, and assume you are one of the good guys? Uh, No.

    I think your take on this says more about your attitude toward Authority in general, and less about your safety or mine. I hope someone here who knows you better tells me I'm wrong, but that's the way it's coming off.

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  2. #32
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    MedPig



    Take care and stay safe.

    Biker

  3. #33
    VIP Member Array Supertac45's Avatar
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    I've only had one contact with a P.O. in public with a pistol on since 1970. I informed him that I had a license to carry a concealed pistol and that I had a pistol on. The Deputy stated something like "yea, okay". It was for a minor accident that occurred a year or so ago. All he wanted was driver license, registration for the car, and proof of insurance. It shows when they run my driver's license. I can't imagine a Police Officer asking me to disarm on my property if I called 911. If they are that insecure with me being armed at home, they really need a differant job.
    Les Baer 45
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by MedPig View Post
    Okay, a 911 call goes in, we don't know what the problem is. I get there, you are running around with a gun on, playing Constitutional Professor with me, refusing to keep your hands away from your weapon, or to otherwise follow directions. You WILL be proned out at gun-point, and any move you make after I start giving directions, will be interpreted as hostile.

    If you have a gun in a holster, and I have a shotgun aimed at your head, which one of us is in control of the situtation? That would NOT be the time to point out you have a right to carry it, wave it, or anything else. The smart thing to do is follow the nice officer's instructions.

    Are you being treated like a criminal? Probably, the way you see it. Have criminals painted barrels on REAL guns orange, to claim they are toys? Sure. Have criminals tried to flee bank robberies by running with the hostages? Sure. Have criminals ever attempted o make pre-emptive strikes on cops? All the time. So, should I just sing Kumbayah, and assume you are one of the good guys? Uh, No.

    I think your take on this says more about your attitude toward Authority in general, and less about your safety or mine. I hope someone here who knows you better tells me I'm wrong, but that's the way it's coming off.

    Sadly, the more I'm on this board the less I like police.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  5. #35
    Member Array muddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MedPig View Post
    Okay, a 911 call goes in, we don't know what the problem is. I get there, you are running around with a gun on, playing Constitutional Professor with me, refusing to keep your hands away from your weapon, or to otherwise follow directions. You WILL be proned out at gun-point, and any move you make after I start giving directions, will be interpreted as hostile.

    If you have a gun in a holster, and I have a shotgun aimed at your head, which one of us is in control of the situtation? That would NOT be the time to point out you have a right to carry it, wave it, or anything else. The smart thing to do is follow the nice officer's instructions.

    Are you being treated like a criminal? Probably, the way you see it. Have criminals painted barrels on REAL guns orange, to claim they are toys? Sure. Have criminals tried to flee bank robberies by running with the hostages? Sure. Have criminals ever attempted o make pre-emptive strikes on cops? All the time. So, should I just sing Kumbayah, and assume you are one of the good guys? Uh, No.

    I think your take on this says more about your attitude toward Authority in general, and less about your safety or mine. I hope someone here who knows you better tells me I'm wrong, but that's the way it's coming off.


    See this is what you don't get. Most ccing persons that call the cops will have there weapon in a holster, will not be running around with it out telling you this or that ect. In fact you probably would not know they have one unless told. Once again the law abiding citizen gets treated like a criminal for informing an officer he has a cc when the criminal you have contact with next gets treated better but has a weapon on and didn't tell ya. In Utah we do not have to inform an officer we have a weapon but most due out of courtesy. If these things starts happening a lot I can see less people doing it.

    Cops are going to need to get use to the average ccer running around, just this morning on the radio I heard that the applications for cc permits is still high and growing. Last month Utah hit a all time high for the number of cc permits.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Array Mardet65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MedPig View Post
    Okay, a 911 call goes in, we don't know what the problem is. I get there, you are running around with a gun on, playing Constitutional Professor with me, refusing to keep your hands away from your weapon, or to otherwise follow directions. You WILL be proned out at gun-point, and any move you make after I start giving directions, will be interpreted as hostile.

    If you have a gun in a holster, and I have a shotgun aimed at your head, which one of us is in control of the situtation? That would NOT be the time to point out you have a right to carry it, wave it, or anything else. The smart thing to do is follow the nice officer's instructions.

    Are you being treated like a criminal? Probably, the way you see it. Have criminals painted barrels on REAL guns orange, to claim they are toys? Sure. Have criminals tried to flee bank robberies by running with the hostages? Sure. Have criminals ever attempted o make pre-emptive strikes on cops? All the time. So, should I just sing Kumbayah, and assume you are one of the good guys? Uh, No.

    I think your take on this says more about your attitude toward Authority in general, and less about your safety or mine.

    Very well said.
    "Kimbers are the guns you show your friends, Glocks are the guns you show your enemies."

  7. #37
    Member Array muddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MedPig View Post
    I think your take on this says more about your attitude toward Authority in general, and less about your safety or mine. I hope someone here who knows you better tells me I'm wrong, but that's the way it's coming off.
    My attitude toward authority is fine, I just have a problem with guys like you that have made assumptions about a situation before you see it and are ready to point a shotgun at my head for calling 911 to report a guy doing wearied things on a trail by my house just because I informed the operator that I have a cc permit and have the weapon on me. Things like this make the news often these days. How do I know you are not going to shoot me with my own weapon getting it out of the holster and trying to unload it?

    Cops wonder why they are not trusted and there is a general dislike for them, gee let me think on this one. Some cops tend to get on there little power kick all to often anymore.

    By the way, I am probably one of the few that will make eye contact with an officer and say hi or the like. See I treat them just like another person and respect them for the work they do. If they act like an officer I have no problem its when they start acting like a cop that makes me mad.

  8. #38
    Member Array Holger's Avatar
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    Muddy's right on this one. Nobody said anything about holding, waving, brandishing, or pointing a weapon with cops around. A reasonable person can expect to be shot in such a situation. The OP was about 'securing' your firearm prior to the cops showing up. To me, securing means putting it back in its holster.

    Biker acts like he's going to kick my door in because my castle is suddenly his and he's a knight riding forth and all and I now have zero rights because I dialed 911 and invited LEO to help.

    I like cops, but I really like professional cops.

    Medpig, help me out. I call 911 because of an intruder and tell the dispatcher I'm armed. Intruder flees. You show up. You come to my door and I answer with a handgun IN an OWB holster than you can see. Will you seriously point a shotgun at my head? Why?

  9. #39
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    Sadly, the more I'm on this board the less I like police.
    Sadly, the more I'm on this board the less I like civilians.

    I have already commented in other threads that I'm not a fan of concealed carry without training for non-LEO's and that I don't think the training required in most localities is enough, but that's for another thread.

    Those of you that are posting comments about "your rights" and liking or not liking police need to realize something. I doubt you will find much variation from what MedPig said among the LEO community. If that hurts your feelings, it's not much of a concern.

    Feelings can be hurt and gotten over. Nobody, except one has risen from the grave. I'm not going to the grave willingly. Each LEO has their own way of dealing with things based upon their expiriences and what they perceive at the time. Sometimes it's a "judgement call".

    I don't much care about anyone's feelings.

    Biker

  10. #40
    Member Array Holger's Avatar
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    Biker, what do you do in the LEO field?

    I'm sorry all those "rights" enjoyed by Americans are such a pain in the ass. Maybe we can address them at the next Constituional Convention.

    I think you and Medpig are hung up on this strawman of someone calling 911 and then waving (or even holding) a gun when the cops show up. Nobody is saying they would do such a thing. What do YOU consider secured when a cop shows up to a citizen's home? I'm genuinely curious.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    Sadly, the more I'm on this board the less I like civilians.

    I have already commented in other threads that I'm not a fan of concealed carry without training for non-LEO's and that I don't think the training required in most localities is enough, but that's for another thread.

    Those of you that are posting comments about "your rights" and liking or not liking police need to realize something. I doubt you will find much variation from what MedPig said among the LEO community. If that hurts your feelings, it's not much of a concern.

    Feelings can be hurt and gotten over. Nobody, except one has risen from the grave. I'm not going to the grave willingly. Each LEO has their own way of dealing with things based upon their expiriences and what they perceive at the time. Sometimes it's a "judgement call".

    I don't much care about anyone's feelings.

    Biker
    If you are so afraid of death you can always find a new line of work. Remember Biker nobody is forcing you to put your life on the line. YOU put yourself in harms way in exchange for monetary compensation. So the "I have a right to go home to my wife and kids." argument doesn't fly with me. You have a right to quit and go find a safer job, you have a sworn DUTY (you remember your oath right?) to uphold and defend those rights you so carelessly talk about trampling. It's time for you to remember that or else "The People" will be required to re-educate you the hard way.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  12. #42
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    If you are so afraid of death you can always find a new line of work. Remember Biker nobody is forcing you to put your life on the line. YOU put yourself in harms way in exchange for monetary compensation. So the "I have a right to go home to my wife and kids." argument doesn't fly with me. You have a right to quit and go find a safer job, you have a sworn DUTY (you remember your oath right?) to uphold and defend those rights you so carelessly talk about trampling. It's time for you to remember that or else "The People" will be required to re-educate you the hard way.
    Why don't you "educate me" then?

    Biker

  13. #43
    Member Array Holger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    If you are so afraid of death you can always find a new line of work. Remember Biker nobody is forcing you to put your life on the line. YOU put yourself in harms way in exchange for monetary compensation. So the "I have a right to go home to my wife and kids." argument doesn't fly with me. You have a right to quit and go find a safer job, you have a sworn DUTY (you remember your oath right?) to uphold and defend those rights you so carelessly talk about trampling. It's time for you to remember that or else "The People" will be required to re-educate you the hard way.
    Careful, atctimmy. If you hurt Biker's feelings one more time you might join many of us on his ignore list.

    Here's a tip, Biker. Stop acting like your safety is more important than those darn civilians' you're supposed to protect.

    Now go ride forth from your castle and mess up all the other kids' sandboxes. You own 'em, after all. You're LEO.

    BTW, what does a non-cop LEO do anyway?

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    Why don't you "educate me" then?

    Biker
    I didn't say me. I have no intention of doing anything to, or for you. I said "The People". My statement is a warning to you, the same as if I said don't go sailing in stormy seas. Have you missed the attitude shift in our county this past year? Did you miss the tea parties? Did you forget about the video camera explosion? "The People" are not happy in America and after reading you posts I can clearly see that you're the personification of what they are not happy with.

    With an attitude like yours though I'm quite sure I'll be reading about you in the news one of these days. Those cops in LA that tuned up Rodney king probably thought they were better than us "civilians" too. Where are they now, do you think?
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    Sadly, the more I'm on this board the less I like police.
    After cooling off a bit I'd like to apologize to Mulle46, Sixto, 64zebra and all the other LEOs here I may have offended with my statement.


    What I really dislike is Biker and Medpigs "I'm better than you" attitude. By the way Biker you're a civilian too. As a veteran I'll point out that the title of your job, regardless of what you really do, is civil servant. That means CIVILIAN to the people like me who really have put their life on the line without the option to quit, go home and find a new job.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

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