Question about the "guy jumped out of the dark" thread

This is a discussion on Question about the "guy jumped out of the dark" thread within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; You know, in Corpus Christi they want their Officers to have an IQ of 100 or better......... so they started putting 2 in a car!!...

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Thread: Question about the "guy jumped out of the dark" thread

  1. #61
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    You know, in Corpus Christi they want their Officers to have an IQ of 100 or better.........


    so they started putting 2 in a car!!
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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  3. #62
    DM2
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolverine1856 View Post
    Your statement without a cite is appreciated. I tried to search around "officer safety + disarm during encounter" and I am not coming up with much. I will keep looking though.

    You may be correct but again I want to be positive and I can't do that without a cite. I asked for opinons and you gave yours. Thanks for the insight.

    Wolverine, I haven't read through all the posts yet, so maybe someone posted this, but you may want to take a look at this MSP - Proper Conduct During Encounters with Police

    Also, here is another helpful link for firearms laws in MI, if you have not already found it during your research: http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...s/firearms.pdf
    DM2
    "I did the thing I feared the most. Excuse me while I cheer. Now here I stand a stronger soul and all I lost was fear." ...Anonymous

  4. #63
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    On a serious note, I'll disarm once the police arrive IF once I've told them I was armed and they asked me to. It would be out of courtesy. I value my rights, but don't go overboard (not saying others are who disagree with the idea). I have no problem disarming when in contact with police, especially if I called them.

    I have a few Detective friends and a few Officer friends and they're all decent guys. Bust their butts for a few bucks an hours, so most of them are in it because it's what they want to do......I hope.

    Now, here's where I really question the intelligence of our LEO's as a whole, and I HATE that I feel this way. We all know it doesn't take much besides a G.E.D. to become a Police Officer....... Bear with me here.

    I was at Valero (our chain of gas stations) and ran in to an Officer I know from IDPA, but not on a real personal level. Older guy and he's a Captain, I believe. I had just been stopped by the Sheriff's office and I had told Jim Kailin, the Sheriff, how well his deputies handled the situation when I handed them my CHL. So, I continued to tell him the story.

    Since I was in jeans and a t-shirt and carrying a Commander 1911 in a VM II, after the story, I asked him how it would be handled if I was in line at the store and I bent down, for example, and was printing. before he could answer, this stupid, young cop with him says, and I quote, "Don't be surprised when you get put in an arm-bar, twisted up and thrown on the ground! Besides, you can't even carry in gas stations, permit or not!!"

    My response was "So, not only are you completely uneducated on Texas law you are also clearly admitting it in front of a superior AND you are also threatening a prominent member of society and the Chamber with an arm-bar in front of numerous innocent people while I'm in line PAYING for an item, just because you saw a print that may or may not be a firearm?"

    Before any more could be said and cutting the new guy off in mid sentence, his superior officer says, "I'd probably just follow you out, then ask you if it's a firearm and/or if you have a CHL. I may even wait until you leave and pull you over to ask those questions."

    I say, "Oh, so you wouldn't break my bones and assault me because of a bulge on my belt line? I also didn't know it was illegal to carry in gas stations in Texas!"

    His response was "Of course it's not illegal to carry in a gas station or anywhere else there's not a 30-06 sign" You could see his face turning red and his aggitation with the other guy. he then apologized and I left.

    When I got back to the office, I asked a high ranking LEO what he thought about that and should I just let it go. he said if it was a member of his family that it happened to, he'd contact the Chief and the City Manager. Well, it just so happens the City Manager is a good friend and client. Phone calls were promptly made to him and the Chief. I also sent emails to our representatives letting them know, very politely, just how uneducated out officers are....to the point they don't even know legal places of carry.

    My Father (former DA in Los Angeles) always said, if you want a trial screwed up, put one of these self-riteous alcoholics on the stand and they'll run it in to the ground.

    I always tried to respect officers, but that really, really bothered me! That was about 6 months ago, but still really scares me. Think about it and how bad things could go with someone like him all amped up. probably shoots twice a year and now his twitching finger is resting on the trigger of the handgun pointed at you because there may or may not be a gun in your waistband?

    You guys do know the National average IQ of police officers, right? Until the 1980's, they recommended anyone with an IQ higher than 80 should be considered for hire.

    Sorry for the rant.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dihappy View Post
    Yet we're suppose to disarm in front of a cop who may have only qualified once last year?
    Heck ive talked to actual police officers who couldnt remember what kind of gun they carry!
    "oh, its some kind of 9mm"

    I thank you for your service to the public, but its cops like you who people like myself would rather not deal with.
    +1
    Well here I go chimming in, While I understand an officer wanting to go home safely, this mentality of "we're the professional' s ie; the person who we feel should be the only one allowed to carry a weapon", and anyone else is not qualified to our alledged standards, is ludacris at best.
    This is akin to saying a proffesional race car driver should be the only persons allowed to use the public highways and city streets,
    And while I believe there are a vast majority of LEO with a higher
    level of calm cool and collectiveness under pressure, that should not
    negate his ability to assess the situation accordingly.
    Part of the problem I see is perhaps its possible that all too many of the LEO s have seen criminals with guns for so long that its a huge leap of faith for them to get accustomed to the idea of the general masses lawfully carrying them

    Here are some stats from the MI. state POL.CPL website

    July1 2007-June 30 2008

    Applications recieved 33411
    Apps issued 26576
    Apps pending 6088
    Apps withdrawn 6
    Apps denied 744

    the stats for the previous year were apprx. 9000 less overall
    but you get my point.
    the police in michigan are slowly going to be exposed to more and more people who are carrying and therefore i believe will begin to slowly adapt to this ,and the apprehension I would hope should soon disapate.

    WASHINGTON DIDíNT USE HIS RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH TO DEFEAT THE BRITISH, HE SHOT THEM

    "To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic." Ted Nugent

  6. #65
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    On a serious note, I'll disarm once the police arrive IF once I've told them I was armed and they asked me to. It would be out of courtesy. I value my rights, but don't go overboard (not saying others are who disagree with the idea). I have no problem disarming when in contact with police, especially if I called them.

    I have a few Detective friends and a few Officer friends and they're all decent guys. Bust their butts for a few bucks an hours, so most of them are in it because it's what they want to do......I hope.

    Now, here's where I really question the intelligence of our LEO's as a whole, and I HATE that I feel this way. We all know it doesn't take much besides a G.E.D. to become a Police Officer....... Bear with me here.

    I was at Valero (our chain of gas stations) and ran in to an Officer I know from IDPA, but not on a real personal level. Older guy and he's a Captain, I believe. I had just been stopped by the Sheriff's office and I had told Jim Kailin, the Sheriff, how well his deputies handled the situation when I handed them my CHL. So, I continued to tell him the story.

    Since I was in jeans and a t-shirt and carrying a Commander 1911 in a VM II, after the story, I asked him how it would be handled if I was in line at the store and I bent down, for example, and was printing. before he could answer, this stupid, young cop with him says, and I quote, "Don't be surprised when you get put in an arm-bar, twisted up and thrown on the ground! Besides, you can't even carry in gas stations, permit or not!!"

    My response was "So, not only are you completely uneducated on Texas law you are also clearly admitting it in front of a superior AND you are also threatening a prominent member of society and the Chamber with an arm-bar in front of numerous innocent people while I'm in line PAYING for an item, just because you saw a print that may or may not be a firearm?"

    Before any more could be said and cutting the new guy off in mid sentence, his superior officer says, "I'd probably just follow you out, then ask you if it's a firearm and/or if you have a CHL. I may even wait until you leave and pull you over to ask those questions."

    I say, "Oh, so you wouldn't break my bones and assault me because of a bulge on my belt line? I also didn't know it was illegal to carry in gas stations in Texas!"

    His response was "Of course it's not illegal to carry in a gas station or anywhere else there's not a 30-06 sign" You could see his face turning red and his aggitation with the other guy. he then apologized and I left.

    When I got back to the office, I asked a high ranking LEO what he thought about that and should I just let it go. he said if it was a member of his family that it happened to, he'd contact the Chief and the City Manager. Well, it just so happens the City Manager is a good friend and client. Phone calls were promptly made to him and the Chief. I also sent emails to our representatives letting them know, very politely, just how uneducated out officers are....to the point they don't even know legal places of carry.

    My Father (former DA in Los Angeles) always said, if you want a trial screwed up, put one of these self-riteous alcoholics on the stand and they'll run it in to the ground.

    I always tried to respect officers, but that really, really bothered me! That was about 6 months ago, but still really scares me. Think about it and how bad things could go with someone like him all amped up. probably shoots twice a year and now his twitching finger is resting on the trigger of the handgun pointed at you because there may or may not be a gun in your waistband?

    You guys do know the National average IQ of police officers, right? Until the 1980's, they recommended anyone with an IQ higher than 80 should be considered for hire.

    Sorry for the rant.
    What is the significance of your status in society as it relates to this story?

    Are you one that thinks prominent members of society, whatever that is, are immune from committing crimes? There are lots of "prominent" members of society that have been convicted of various felonies over the years. I have even had the pleasure of placing handcuffs on people that pay more in taxes than I make in a year. I get no pleasure from that, but I get no pleasure from placing handcuffs on anyone.

    The fact that your Daddy, or Father as you call him, is a former Los Angeles District Attorney affords him nor you any more special privilege from law enforcement, at least it shouldn't, than the lowest member of our society. I'm sure your Daddy has heard that old saying "Justice is blind". I would like to think that to be the case, that justice is in fact blind. That saying goes hand in hand with, "Right is right and wrong is wrong".

    Biker

  7. #66
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    I had a long reply for you, but it was deleted. I just can't understand why you are SO hostile. I was making a point. Why is everyone else always wrong. Making comments like "daddy" just doesn't sound right. The last time we got into this, you stated it was what you called your Father, but the tone just doesn't seem right. I use Father when I write about him, I call him Dad.

    Also, why are you here? you're against civilians and concealed carry. This is DEFENSIVE CARRY, not LEO Carry. Why are you posting thousands of comments on a forum geared towards civilians and concealed carry? It doesn't make sense to me.

    I appreciate some of your comments, and some actually could be helpful to members, but I doubt many see the good in your posts because of what it's wrapped in. Can you please explain your attitude towards us all?

    Can you tell us why you're here, on a civilian carry forum with thousands of posts, when you are against CHL's and you've stated numerous times that you don't care about anyone here or their opinions.

    I'm not being rude here, I just really want to know.

    P.S. I hope this one was better stated so I don't receive another infraction
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  8. #67
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    I had a long reply for you, but it was deleted. I just can't understand why you are SO hostile. I was making a point. Why is everyone else always wrong. Making comments like "daddy" just doesn't sound right. The last time we got into this, you stated it was what you called your Father, but the tone just doesn't seem right. I use Father when I write about him, I call him Dad.

    I use the term Momma and Daddy.
    Maybe it's a cultural thing?


    Also, why are you here? you're against civilians and concealed carry. This is DEFENSIVE CARRY, not LEO Carry. Why are you posting thousands of comments on a forum geared towards civilians and concealed carry? It doesn't make sense to me.

    I am not against civilian carry.
    I am against uneducated anyone carry, including LEO's.


    I appreciate some of your comments, and some actually could be helpful to members, but I doubt many see the good in your posts because of what it's wrapped in. Can you please explain your attitude towards us all?

    Sometimes you have to unwrap the package to get to the prize inside.

    Can you tell us why you're here, on a civilian carry forum with thousands of posts, when you are against CHL's and you've stated numerous times that you don't care about anyone here or their opinions.

    If I didn't care at all I wouldn't be here.
    There has to be a line drawn somewhere, and I've drawn mine. Like I said before, I am against uneducated carry. I don't have all the answers, nor do I claim to. Heck, I learn a lot here myself.


    I'm not being rude here, I just really want to know.

    P.S. I hope this one was better stated so I don't receive another infraction
    I tend to be blunt and direct, as that is my nature. Sometimes that offends people.

    Biker

  9. #68
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Now, I use placement in society because it does matter. maybe I'm jabbing a bit or exaggerating a point, but it does matter. Response times in our area is 2 minutes max. We are treated different by where we live and who we are. That's not my doing, it's just life. My Dad being a DA in LA is of relevance. It makes quite a difference if something comes from a professional or from some drunk on disability that just doesn't want to work.

    This Officer, who was probably about 6 years younger than me (I'm 29), was very disrespectful. The area of town that I guess is his patrol and where I live, is one of the best in Corpus (if there is a best in Corpus!).

    If he treated me like that when I was obviously from the area and an acquaintance of his senior officer, how i he going to treat some guy he pulls over and looks at him wrong? As far as I know, he thinks CHL's in vehicles is illegal.

    My point after four posts, endless rambling and an infraction is that there is nothing special about some cop. He is not above anything at all. If I call them to come to my home, they ARE NOT taking over. I will LET them in my home.
    That is exactly how it happened when there was an issue late at night and how it will happen again.

    I had my weapon holstered when I opened the door. I told the 911 operator and then told them when they arrived. They barely acknowledged it. Now, i would put my gun up if asked, but I would not give it to them or I'd ask them to leave. I've seen how cops shoot and act, I'm not about to put my life in their hands, except for a few I know well.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  10. #69
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Biker, I know that's how you are and I appreciate that. I actually like you in some distorted way. But seriously, think about how some things come across. I'm OK with blunt and direct. I'm also very against uneducated carry. I've seen a lot of idiots with CHL's.

    I see some replies and they just SEEM like you are completely against most people, almost like you're here to speak against carry, etc.

    I get a little excited and maybe say things I normally wouldn't. I do appreciate LEO's overall. There's just been a few scares after hearing how little that one knew on the concealed carry laws of Texas. I imagine it's a very stressful job that isn't appreciated like it should be. I also think there are many that get in to it for the wrong reasons, as there are with any career that holds authority.

    I just see hostility when someone says something you don't like. Like the Daddy comment. Maybe it's just what you say, but it came across a little differently.

    You know, carrying a firearm is a very serious matter. Many take it lightly and think it gives them a little more power and it may put them in a bad situation someday like the guy shooting the shoplifter. Was that right or wrong? I wasn't there. A lot of your posts are very reasonable and sensible. Especially when it comes to getting involved in other people's messes. But, sometimes it's said in such a way that the point is probably missed by many and it was actually a good point that may have gotten though to someone or even saved their life someday when they see something and decide to NOT get involved.... But they missed it because they were to ticked off about the way it was said.

    So, I apologize, again. It just drives me nuts sometimes!

    P.S. I also apologize to the members here for my numerous posts on this and for those that may have read my other post that was a little out of line. That's not me! Business is slow tight now, we had our son 27 days ago so I'm exhausted, I've been working with clients daily (they paid last year, so I'm busy but the money end is slow) when I normally only meet and work with one client a week, at most. So, I guess I'm more on edge than I thought. Sorry about that.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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