Maybe I would shoot the BG in the leg...maybe NOT!

This is a discussion on Maybe I would shoot the BG in the leg...maybe NOT! within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Is anyone aware of a real case when shooting someone in the leg (intentionaly) was used as a warning or hold tactic and it worked? ...

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Thread: Maybe I would shoot the BG in the leg...maybe NOT!

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array nosights's Avatar
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    Maybe I would shoot the BG in the leg...maybe NOT!

    Is anyone aware of a real case when shooting someone in the leg (intentionaly) was used as a warning or hold tactic and it worked?

    Before you think I am serious about shooting someone in the leg on intentionaly for the above type of reasons...I would not.

    The only time I can think I might air for someones leg or extremity is if it is the exposed COM and the BG was behind an impervious barrier and an imminent threat to me or others.

    Any articles or stories of this "tactic" working (the "just injure 'em" shot)? Just curious as this scenario has popped up numerous times.
    Pray for our nations leaders!

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  3. #2
    Member Array NC Buckeye's Avatar
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    NEVER shoot anyone in the leg! You run into multiple problems...

    1) A shoot that meets all of the requirements and you intend fire is fine, shoot that meets all of the requirements and you unintentially squeeze the trigger it is a ND. If the prosecutor decided to try to prove that you could be in some trouble

    2) There is no difference in the legal system between a shot to the leg and one to the head. Both are using a deadly weapon, so there is no benefit to you.

    3) The reason you use deadly force is to stop a threat. A shot to a leg will not end it.

    4) You have no right to hold anyone

    The only time I would shoot someone in the leg would be the cover argument above, in that case if you can see their feet the only reason you shoot them in the leg it to bring their body down to where you can get a shot on it.

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    Distinguished Member Array GWRedDragon's Avatar
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    If you admitted that you did it on purpose, a prosecutor could argue that you shot him in the leg so he couldn't escape rather than in self-defense.

    If the situation is really dire enough that you need to shoot someone, shoot in the way that is most likely to stop the threat while minimizing risk to innocent parties. This means COM.
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    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    A state legislator from NY tried to get a law passed to make police shoot to wound a few years ago. He was obviously watching too much TV. If you have to shoot at someone during an attack you will be lucky to hit center of mass. I have never heard of anyone trying to "wing" someone on purpose except in the movies.
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    VIP Member Array automatic slim's Avatar
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    Shooting someone in the leg is just a guarantee that they and their ambulance chasing buddies will take you to court and wreck havoc on your life, if the local DA doesn't beat them to it.
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    Senior Member Array TucAzRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Buckeye View Post
    NEVER shoot anyone in the leg! You run into multiple problems...

    1) A shoot that meets all of the requirements and you intend fire is fine, shoot that meets all of the requirements and you unintentially squeeze the trigger it is a ND. If the prosecutor decided to try to prove that you could be in some trouble

    2) There is no difference in the legal system between a shot to the leg and one to the head. Both are using a deadly weapon, so there is no benefit to you.

    3) The reason you use deadly force is to stop a threat. A shot to a leg will not end it.

    4) You have no right to hold anyone

    The only time I would shoot someone in the leg would be the cover argument above, in that case if you can see their feet the only reason you shoot them in the leg it to bring their body down to where you can get a shot on it.

    Very well said,..

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    Distinguished Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TucAzRider View Post
    Very well said,..
    Me too. If I ever get into a shooting scrape, and shoot someone in the leg it will be because I flinched and missed.

    Regards,
    Jerry

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    Senior Member Array Divebum47's Avatar
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    A shot in the leg, and there's a good chance you have a "his word against yours" situation. A shot in the head minimizes that possibility.
    "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"

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    If you are in 'fear of your life', hopefully the leg shot is because the third shot was a little low...

    Stay armed...shot to STOP the threat...stay safe!
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    Member Array fox2102's Avatar
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    The way I see it is if i'm ever in the position I need to shoot someone I want there to be 1 story when the police show up...

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    The one time I heard of it I think it was in PA, the shooter managed to hit the femoral and the BG bled out PDQ and died anyway.

    Shoot for the biggest target you can.

    If the leg happens to be the biggest target, sure. But if there is a larger, better option take it.

    Here we go:

    http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/275...ing-death.html

    Police: Road rage led to York shooting death
    Douglas Allen Need's femoral artery was severed when he was shot Saturday.
    By MICHELE CANTY

    Daily Record/Sunday News
    Article Last Updated: 07/01/2008 1048 AM EDT

    Douglas Allen Need was shot and killed in a melee stemming from "road rage," police said.

    On Monday, authorities said the shooting may have been justifiable, but they are still investigating.

    His death is listed as a homicide and is being investigated by York City Police and the York County District Attorney's Office.

    Witnesses told police Need was driving wildly in the 400 block of East Philadelphia Street in York Saturday evening. During the ride, he cut off a car containing two women and a baby, police said.

    Need and the women stopped their cars and argued. The fight turned physical, with Need hitting one of the women, police said.

    A family member from a car behind was punched when he tried to help her fight Need, who police said was yelling and threatening the women's lives.

    Need and his passenger were arguing and fighting with the people from the other car, police said, when another man in another vehicle stopped to intervene.

    The man was armed and was "aggressively" approached by Need, York City Police Lt. Ron Camacho said. The man warned Need to step back and fired at least one warning shot, Camacho said.

    Need kept approaching and was shot in the leg, Camacho said.

    The 42-year-old died at York Hospital soon after his arrival, police said.

    The shot severed Need's femoral artery, causing his death, the York County Coroner's Office reported Monday.

    The femoral artery, a main artery which runs from the abdomen to the knee, carries blood to the lower body.

    As a main blood source for the extremities, a cut in the femoral artery can be fatal by causing a person to lose a large amount of blood in a manner of minutes, according to WebMD.com.

    Police believe Need had been drinking but are waiting for the results of toxicology reports to confirm it, Camacho said.

    York County First Assistant District Attorney Bill Graff said the district attorney's office is still waiting on several reports before making a ruling in the death.

    Graff said the office's initial assessment still stands that the shooting may be justifiable.

    The shooter was taken into custody in the parking lot where Need was killed without incident. He has cooperated with authorities, police and district attorney's office, officials said.

    A handgun used in the homicide was also recovered, police said.

    The shooter will be named after the district attorney's office completes its investigation and makes a ruling on the homicide, police said.

    FEMORAL ARTERY

    The body has two femoral arteries that branch off from about mid-abdomen into each thigh. They are among the body's biggest vessels, and in the groin area and upper thigh, are about as big around as an index finger.

    Stopping blood loss from a bullet hole in that region can be extremely challenging if the wound is close to the groin. It would be hard to put a tourniquet around it, said Dr. Gannon Dudlar, an emergency medicine specialist at the University of Illinois Medical Center in Chicago.

    An injury of this type "essentially means you can lose all the blood in your whole body within five minutes," said Dr. Mary Pat McKay, director of George Washington University's Center for Injury Prevention and Control.

    Source:The Associated Press

  13. #12
    Member Array diverdown247's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nosights View Post
    Is anyone aware of a real case when shooting someone in the leg (intentionaly) was used as a warning or hold tactic and it worked?

    Before you think I am serious about shooting someone in the leg on intentionaly for the above type of reasons...I would not.

    The only time I can think I might air for someones leg or extremity is if it is the exposed COM and the BG was behind an impervious barrier and an imminent threat to me or others.

    Any articles or stories of this "tactic" working (the "just injure 'em" shot)? Just curious as this scenario has popped up numerous times.
    You can actually be charged criminally for shooting someone in the leg intentionally. It would be considered intent to mame or cause injury. The courts expect that if you pull and shoot that you shoot to kill....for survival. If it just happens to not kill and your intent was to shoot to survive, it's more likely that your shooting will be deemed justified.

  14. #13
    Senior Member Array nosights's Avatar
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    People, I think the point has been made. I hope it was clear to all of you that I have taken the stance 100% that this is a bad idea.

    However, I have heard a few questions by some on this board about this practice so I thought I would start this thread.

    Really though, I think that 98% of those on here only read the first few words of a post and take that idea and run with it.

    ANYBODY HAVE ANY OTHER CASES WHEN THIS PRACTICE (of shooting to injure vs. kill) HAS WORKED.....?

    I didn't expect much, I just wanted to answer (in an indirect way) the thought of shooting to injure.
    Pray for our nations leaders!

  15. #14
    Senior Member Array nosights's Avatar
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    To be clear...if I enter into a shooting situation I will shoot for CO(exposed)M and keep shooting untill the threat is no longer a threat. My intent is NOT death, it is to stop the threat. Death is a very potential side effect of that equation, Lord willing, not my death.

    (Thought I had better put that in the beggining of a post so it had a chance of being read)

  16. #15
    Member Array NC Buckeye's Avatar
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    I read it, but it seems odd. It is like asking can you give me an example of someone living because they didn't wear their seatbelt or a cop letting someone off because they were driving so fast that the paperwork would have been too much of a hassle.

    I'm sure it has happened, but likely not intentionally, and it was caused by poor judgement to begin with.

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