This is a discussion on Getting shot by/shooting another CCW'er within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Please read the entire post and answer the question at the end if you feel so inclined...just food for thought in these scenarios. The thought ...
Please read the entire post and answer the question at the end if you feel so inclined...just food for thought in these scenarios.
The thought of shooting another CCW'er coming to the sound of gun shots is often brought up as a scenario on these threads. Just look around on here and it is brought up in nearly every thread containing a scenario.
My thoughts on this-
The vast majority of you on here seem to take the stance of flight vs. fight when you are not directly involved in the situation. What makes you think that the other CCW'er believes differently. I understand that we can not possibly know this.
Also, does that really change your feelings on the situation? You could insert the possibility of another person legally carrying comming out of the woodwork and shooting you after you have eliminated a threat or it could be the other way around.
Are we going to constantly live in "fear" of this playing out? I can only address the factors that I can see...not the ones that I can not (like the possible BG accomplice in the back of the store).
QUESTION FOR YOU ALL- Have any of you seen proof of this type of thing being done regularly or irregularly? I have not, but I would be interested in being proven wrong as I may need to change my beliefs on this.
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I have seen no proof of concealed handgun licensees shooting each other in dire circumstances.That doesent mean it hasn't happened, it just means I havent seen it.
But it could happen and it could happen very easily.
Consider the number of fatal shootings by Police that happen due to mistaken identity. Too common, we hear stories of Cops shooting other Cops in every kind of scenario that you can imagine.
Hopefully, this is something discussed in the class to receive the permit. I know that we do it here, and it is something that every single person needs to be aware of.
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I have not seen any evidence of this happening. I'm a civilian, I'm not heading in the direction of gunfire anymore. I'm getting those I care about out of the area. My concealed weapon stays that way unless I have no other option.
If I have the misfortune to be involved in the fight, I'll also have to remain alert in the aftermath for follow on threats. Living with the fear of being shot by another CCW holder would be low on my list of concerns at that time.
If we all had CCW badges the likely hood would go way down!! J/K
Gun fire coming one-way. I am going the other. If I were involied and the threat was over I would reholster and still keep SA on high alert for BG friends,leo approaching hopefully wife or family member gave best descripition to dispatch and relayed correct info to LEO's.
Put me in a life or death encounter and anyone with a weapon IS A THREAT!QUESTION FOR YOU ALL- Have any of you seen proof of this type of thing being done regularly or irregularly? I have not, but I would be interested in being proven wrong as I may need to change my beliefs on this.
If Joe or Jane Blow rally forth to the sounds of guns those using said guns may very well perceive Joe and Jane as accomplices of the threat they have eliminated.
When you are alone in a self defense encounter you have no reasonable expectation of assistance coming to your aide. I have posted before that one of my biggest fears is being shot when I am off duty, by the on duty constabulary. Maybe I should change that to CCW Holder, or add it to my statement.
Also, they don't teach scanning for another threat after you shoot the first threat for grins and giggles. It is taught because badguys, like wolves, tend to travel in numbers that exceed one.
Look at the number of off duty LEO's that have been shot by the on duty LEO's when they respond to the sounds of guns fired by the off duty LEO. There are many such incidents.
When one is involved in a life or death encounter their perception is vastly "skewed" and the ability to rationally think things through at that moment has halted. The body is programmed to survive and does everything it can do ensure that survival. That's why you lose fine motor skill. Blood goes to the large muscle groups to enable you to fight the deadly tiger, or flee. Vision focuses on the threat and auditoy exclusion takes place in many cases.
Your best bet is, if you hear the sounds of guns is to get to cover, usually best accomplished by fleeing the scene, and summoning the on duty constabulary. While it would be unfortunate for a CCW Permit holder to be shot responding to the sounds of guns, it would be justifiable and very understandable IMO.
As an FYI, the off duty officer in the Trolley Square shooting was almost shot by the responding on duty officers. The heat of battle is no time to question someone and ask for ID.
F.A.S.T..... Fight ASSESS SCAN Top Off .... I echo what Biker said..." they don't teach scanning for another threat after you shoot the first threat for grins and giggles".
Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.
I truly understand the thought process to hide or flee the area where gunfire is, I only have one issue that I worry about for me.......
I have trained and trained with CQC, shooting, weapons training and so on, and it has been drilled into our heads that when gunfire erupts, you move to the gunfire and overwhelm it with superior firepower...
Here in lies the dilema, if this was to happen to me when I return to the states, how will I handle the situation, how will I adapt to being back in the states where that may not be the best answer????
All the training we do, I feel it may be a task in itself re-wiring the mindset, maybe not the warrior mindset as much so to speak...
Thats just something I think about from time to time!!!!
Believe me, I do understand your quandry, as I have been there myself. All I can say is, it takes some significant "re-programing" on your part.
The methods that work on the battlefield are in many case contrary to what works best off the battlefield and vice versa.
If gunfire breaks out and is not directed towards you, common sense says to exit the area! If that is not practical under the circumstances, then find cover and be a good observer - IF you can do so without putting yourself or others in danger.
As a ccw holder you are not a LEO backup. You are not a reserve swat team member. You are and remain a private citizen. If you try to be what you are not, you or another innocent may end up dead.
As always there are exemptions to every rule. However, don't make the mistake of thinking ever situation is that exemption.
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