Female vs Female

This is a discussion on Female vs Female within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; At my last CHL class this past Saturday I had a lady that was almost kidnapped by another woman on a Saturday afternoon at 1 ...

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Thread: Female vs Female

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array Reborn's Avatar
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    Female vs Female

    At my last CHL class this past Saturday I had a lady that was almost kidnapped by another woman on a Saturday afternoon at 1 pm in the parking lot of a Hobby Lobby in Longview, Texas.
    This is her story.
    Tell me how many mistakes she made and what she did right.

    She left the store with her hands full of sacks walking back to her pickup.
    Her truck is a 4 door, plain white chevy and was parked just a few places down from the front door.
    As she unlocked the door she notices a suburban next to her has the motor running and the window are darkly tinted.
    As she places the packages into the back sit of her truck she notices a woman getting out of the vehicle next to her.
    This person is nicely dressed, clean looking, and has long, neatly done hair.
    She is not overly concerned and thinks she is just going to ask a question.
    This lady turns back to her truck placing the last few items into the back seat.

    The woman that gets out of the suburban places a arm around her and sticks a gun to her chin and says. "THIS IS NOT A JOKE. GET INTO YOUR TRUCK OR I WILL SHOOT YOU."
    My student said it just was really a strange feeling having the muzzle of the semi-auto pressed to her chin.
    She reached up and pulled the pistol away from her face and the struggle began.
    The victim started screaming "GOD HELP ME!" She scream this three times.
    On the third time the BG broke free from the struggle with the gun and jumped back into the suburban as it started moving.
    The victim thought they may go ahead and shoot her while the suburban was leaving, so she jumped into the floor board of the back seat.
    She continued to hear the Suburban leaving so she jumped back up and tried to get the license number but, had no luck.

    OK pick it apart.
    Psalms 144:1
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    Senior Instructor for Tactical and Defensive of Texas
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  3. #2
    Member Array halfcrazy's Avatar
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    She is alive she did good. hard to say what would happen if she had got in the truck?

  4. #3
    Member Array Brian D.'s Avatar
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    Beter to make a stand right there in town than being taken elsewhere against one's will.

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    Senior Member Array ASSA9's Avatar
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    "she notices a suburban next to her has the motor running and the window are darkly tinted".
    That never a good sign.
    Zoe: "Preacher, don't the Bible have some pretty specific things to say about killing?

    Book: "Quite specific. It is, however, somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps."

  6. #5
    Member Array Rivers's Avatar
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    Assuming there was a police report, they should have started canvassing the stores in the shopping center for security camera footage. That could have ID'ed the Suburban and helped catch the attempted kidnappers. Let's see, attempted kidnapping, assault with a deadly weapon with a gun enhancement, ...

    For the moment though, she did OK. I think I would have continued the crawl through the backseats to get as far away from the assailant as possible, maybe even exit the truck on the far side to run to a store.

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian D. View Post
    Beter to make a stand right there in town than being taken elsewhere against one's will.
    As I was trained in the military: your best chance of escape is in the first few moments of capture. She did well. Furthermore, her chances of surviving that attempted adduction were likely very slim.

    BTW: Ref. to another post; In the southwest hot zones, tinted windows with motor running (a/c) is very common.
    Regards,
    “Monsters are real and so are ghosts. They live inside of us, and sometimes they win.”
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    Senior Member Array unloved's Avatar
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    The only faults I can find are that she wasn't armed and she should be more wary of people. Looks like she's working to correct that, good for her.

    What she did correctly was fight. She didn't just submit and meekly get into the Suburban. That's a really good sign that she'll learn from her incident and be prepared to take care of herself in the future.

    If she had entered the Suburban she'd likely have been killed.

  9. #8
    Senior Member Array InspectorGadget's Avatar
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    If you leave with the BG(like Brady says "Just Cooperate and you will probably survive.") you chances of surviving the incident, while not 0% are dang close. DO NOT LEAVE WITHTHE BG....... Once you leave with them you are at their mercy, they have none. Yell, Scream, Claw, Preferably blow their head off with a .45 I may die during their attempt to kidnap me but I will take a few BG's with me in the process.

    The only fault I see is assuming the lady was just asking a question, you are a threat until I deem otherwise. After that she did exactly the right thing. and is there to tell you about it.

    If you see a suspicious vehicle next to yours just walk on by as if it is not your car, look at the license plate, circle back in to the store and let security know.
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  10. #9
    Distinguished Member Array Rugergirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    At my last CHL class this past Saturday I had a lady that was almost kidnapped by another woman on a Saturday afternoon at 1 pm in the parking lot of a Hobby Lobby in Longview, Texas.
    This is her story.
    Tell me how many mistakes she made and what she did right.

    She left the store with her hands full of sacks walking back to her pickup.
    Her truck is a 4 door, plain white chevy and was parked just a few places down from the front door.
    As she unlocked the door she notices a suburban next to her has the motor running and the window are darkly tinted.
    As she places the packages into the back sit of her truck she notices a woman getting out of the vehicle next to her.
    This person is nicely dressed, clean looking, and has long, neatly done hair.
    She is not overly concerned and thinks she is just going to ask a question.
    This lady turns back to her truck placing the last few items into the back seat.

    The woman that gets out of the suburban places a arm around her and sticks a gun to her chin and says. "THIS IS NOT A JOKE. GET INTO YOUR TRUCK OR I WILL SHOOT YOU."
    My student said it just was really a strange feeling having the muzzle of the semi-auto pressed to her chin.
    She reached up and pulled the pistol away from her face and the struggle began.
    The victim started screaming "GOD HELP ME!" She scream this three times.
    On the third time the BG broke free from the struggle with the gun and jumped back into the suburban as it started moving.
    The victim thought they may go ahead and shoot her while the suburban was leaving, so she jumped into the floor board of the back seat.
    She continued to hear the Suburban leaving so she jumped back up and tried to get the license number but, had no luck.

    OK pick it apart.
    For starters very bad SA
    1) both hands full of packages
    2)A suburban next to her running with dark tinted windows and she gets between the two vehiciles
    3) she stands there and assesses the sitiation completely based on how the woman was dressed
    4) she wasn't carrying a firearm of her own(yet).

    I wouldn't have gotten into the same situation, and here is what I would have done differently.
    1) I would have been carrying
    2) the packages I was carrying would have been in my left(weak ) hand and my keys and alarm remote would have been in my stong hand
    3) I would have put my packages in on the other side and not gotten myself in the position she did. If things didn't seem right to my spidey senses I would have got in on the passenger side as well and immediately locked my door like I always do.
    4) I wouldn't have assumed anything based on how someone was dressed(decoys can be painted any color).
    Disclaimer: The posts made by this member are only the members opinion, not a reflection on anyone else, nor the group, and should not be cause for anyone to get their undergarments wedged in an uncomfortable position.

  11. #10
    Distinguished Member Array Reborn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASSA9 View Post
    "she notices a suburban next to her has the motor running and the window are darkly tinted".
    That never a good sign.
    It was probably over 100 degrees that day. A motor running in Texas is not usual but it pays to be cautious.
    Psalms 144:1
    Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight.
    Senior Instructor for Tactical and Defensive of Texas
    http://www.tac-def-tx.com/
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  12. #11
    Distinguished Member Array Reborn's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Rugergirl;1264110]For starters very bad SA
    1) both hands full of packages
    2)A suburban next to her running with dark tinted windows and she gets between the two vehiciles
    3) she stands there and assesses the sitiation completely based on how the woman was dressed
    4) she wasn't carrying a firearm of her own(yet).

    1. I agree
    2. I agree
    3. At least she was able to give a good description to police. She was at least observant.
    4. They is why she was at the class.
    Psalms 144:1
    Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight.
    Senior Instructor for Tactical and Defensive of Texas
    http://www.tac-def-tx.com/
    CHL INSTRUCTOR
    Retired LEO
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  13. #12
    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    In addition to what's been said, most people feel like that kind of thing won't happen to me, not where I live.

    Good news is, she lived to make sure she isn't a victim again.
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
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  14. #13
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    Rugergirl has some great responses.

    I might add that carrying enough stuff to fill both arms is not uncommon for a lot of people. However, maybe if you have more items than you can carry in one hand, you should use a shopping cart to take the items to your vehicle.

    The shopping cart becomes a mobile obstacle which you can place between yourself and a potential attacker if you are accosted on the way to your car or while at your car. Plus your hands are relatively free and able to go for your gun when you are merely pushing the cart instead of actually carrying items in your arms.

    Dark tinted windows and vehicle running in the summer is not uncommon. In fact it is so common that most people do not give it a second thought. And of course, 99.9% of the time, the boogey man is not lurking inside waiting to pounce. But it just takes that one time, now doesn't it...

    Rugergirl is very astute to point out that there is no reason you can't just go to the passenger side of your vehicle to load your items and enter your vehicle if necessary.

    If you've brought a shopping cart with you, it can be a barrier for you as you load your car. This way, you have your own vehicle between you and the suspicious vehicle, you have the shopping cart protecting your rear or flank, and you are facing the suspicious vehicle instead of having your back to it.

    You should be able to see through your own side windows to see who exits the suspect vehicle and note any untoward behavior.

    lastly, it's always best to have a firearm for yourself!
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  15. #14
    VIP Member Array HKinNY's Avatar
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    IMHO, she should of yelled "Somebody call the Police or Somebody help me!!better than yelling OMG. More likely to attract attention of somebody. If I was carrying and somebody was able to get that close to put a gun under my chin . I would be pulling the firearm away from my face and pulling out my firearm and place two point blank com. Any attack that you can walk away from is ok in my book.

  16. #15
    Senior Member Array Rotorflyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASSA9 View Post
    "she notices a suburban next to her has the motor running and the window are darkly tinted".
    That never a good sign.
    They're in TX, 100* +heat, motors running (for a/c) and tinted windows are common place....as are Suburbans
    When Guns Are Outlawed, Only Outlaws will have guns

    Just remember, When seconds count help is mere minutes away

    Also remember, When you go to trial by jury you are putting yourself into the hands of 12 people who weren't smart enough to get out of jury duty.

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