This is a discussion on Car Jackings within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I think this is my first post. I have read many, many of the Scenario's. Very good education. I'm not trying to be a troll ...
August 26th, 2009 01:30 AM
I think this is my first post. I have read many, many of the Scenario's. Very good education. I'm not trying to be a troll (I think that is the correct forum term), but I was a little intimidated by the expertise of some. Here we go.
I have my CCW. I often have to drive through rougher part of the city. After reading a post about traveling cross-country armed, it motivated me to set my Glock on the seat next to me when I am in my car. Since I use a IWB holster, it would be very difficult/slow to get it out quickly seated in my car with a seat belt on.
Here's my question:
Has anyone read or have any knowledge about how car jackings are planned or executed? In other words, is it random? Are there multiple people? Do they use cover to hide until they come out? Is it only during the night? Do they chose specific car types or driver types? What are your defensive options? Can you see them coming if you are situationally aware?
Lastly, if I was not on my game and watching my surroundings and had someone open my door to car-jack me, I could very easily get pulled out and my Glock would be left sitting in the passenger seat. Do you feel like I should not set it there?
August 26th, 2009 01:30 AM
August 26th, 2009 01:51 AM
I'm no expert, but I will share my opinion, for what it's worth.
Originally Posted by Maverick68
First, the gun on the seat. Get that gun back in the holster. IIRC, two F.B.I. Agents lost their guns when they tried to stop Platt and Mattix. Google "FBI Miami Shootout" to understand what I am referring to.
I carry two guns, and both are accesable to me when I am seatbelted in my vehicle. Yes, they are both concealed as well. The gun on the seat, if you come to a sudden stop or make a fast turn has the habit of sliding off the seat and going somewhere you don't want it to. There are some companies out there that make "Car Holsters" be they cross-draw rigs that attatch to the seatbelt or mount to the seat itself.
Carjackings run the gammit. One attacker up to six attackers, it varies, just like in the rest of the world. Situational awareness is always an asset and allows you to make a hasty plan if you have enough warning.
Being that you are in a vehicle, I am of the opinion to either shoot or drive. Do not attempt to do both! In some cases you would be better served fleeing the scene hastily, even at the cost of body damage to your vehicle or another's vehicle. Vehicles are not as bullet-proof as many people think. They are good however at getting one away from the scene quickly by virtue of their speed.
Another thing to think about is, as you are fleeing, are you willing and able to run over one of your attackers and keep going? Are you willing to run your car up on a sidewalk to get away, providing no innocents are in your line of retreat?
I'm of the opinion, and expirience has taught me, that it's easier to deal with the local LEO's, lawyers and insurance companies for fleeing a carjacking than a shooting. That does not mean that I am not willing or prepared to shoot, just putting some options out there. I've not been the victim of a carjacking, but I have used a gun before, and been in a traffic accident or two.
Take care and stay safe.
August 26th, 2009 02:34 AM
As BikerRN already mentioned, you shouldn't leave your firearm laying on the seat. If you have to stop fast it will very likely end up on the floorboard and out of reach. Do you have a glove box or other enclosed compartment within reach of the driver's seat? That would be best.
Originally Posted by Maverick68
Some carjackings are random, some are not.
There are often multiple perps involved, but one guy working alone is not uncommon.
Sometimes they use cover, but frequently not. A common tactic is crouching down low and sneaking up from behind when you're at a stop light/sign. However, there are MANY possible scenarios that can occur.
Keep your doors locked and windows up whenever possible. In the summer months, use your air conditioner rather than ride around with your windows down all the time.
They often choose specific vehicle and driver types, but not always.
Nobody can be "situationally aware" 100% of the time, including SWAT officers and Special Forces soldiers. Always be aware of your surroundings, to the best of your mental faculties.
Whenever possible, avoid bad neighborhoods and fuel up your vehicle during daylight hours. However, be aware that a significant number of carjackings occur in broad daylight, so daytime fueling only gives you a little better odds of avoiding a carjacking.
Watch videos and read books/magazines that deal with carjackings and other self-defense situations like home invasions etc. I'm sure you can also find some good resources on the internet, but use discernment.
There are a number of defensive options, all of which start with USING YOUR HEAD! A reliable handgun, pepper gel/foam, good defensive driving---just to name a few.
If you flee the scene of an attempted carjacking in your vehicle, NEVER assume that the perps are gone for good, and don't let down your guard. Call the police ASAP.
"I've run across shooting after shooting where the defender shot a violent aggressor with a .380 and did little to immediately stop his depredations. A good hollow point load in 9mm or .38 Special will, historically, end lethal assaults more quickly."
~ Massad Ayoob
August 26th, 2009 02:55 AM
As already mentioned always keep doors locked.
I keep one gun in my pocket while driving
and another tightly fit in between my driver seat and
console. I know with all cars you cant do that but if so
it works great.
Also never pull right up close to a vehicle in front of you
allowing yourself some room to quickly move if you get in a bad
situation. Driving away quickly could be your best move.
When I stop somewhere I always look around and check
my mirrors too for anyone approaching my car.
Usually carjackers just want the car and dont hurt the owner
but for me personally I wouldnt take that chance.
Remember too that vehicles offer very little protection
against gunfire unless you have an armored car.
Seems that a lot of criminals not all will ask you for something before
they attack a victim such as directions, a cigarette, a light for a cigarette
or something along those lines as to distract the soon to be victim.
August 26th, 2009 03:03 AM
I have always been of the opinion that if someone tries to carjack me with a weapon, though I may not have a gun, I would not be unarmed. That car is a significant weapon if it needs to be. Keep your doors locked, mine are manual, and it's hard to remember all the time.
If you choose to carry on the seat get a cheap nylon holster with a belt clip. Buckle the passenger seat belt and clip the holster on it, then use the belted holster to hold the handgun. Check your local laws on open carry in vehicles too. Now that I have my CCP I have taken to putting it between the seats in my truck.
August 26th, 2009 06:25 AM
"How" one may get carjacked, is like asking "how" one may get robbed...it can happen in a variety of ways. I don't think that I have read any to articles about it where its been exactly the same.
Being aware of your surroundings is the most important. I always try to keep enough space from the car in front of me to have an exit.
I would keep my firearm holsterd, unless I already sensed 'problems' approaching and my path had been blocked...but you would be amazed what a 3000 pound car can drive through.
Stay armed...stay alert, and have a plan...stay safe!
"That I cannot do."
"Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks."
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
August 26th, 2009 06:42 AM
I can only assume that you are asking about the average car jacking occurs from a victims point of view. I can only assume that you want to know what is the best way to prepare for such an event. So far I have never had this experience. Hopefully I never will experience a car jacking. Knock on wood!
As some may have already mentioned, the first thing you should be doing is locking the door of your vehicle. Don't give the criminal element the opportunity to take advantage of you.
One thing to consider the areas you frequently travel. if you travel in an area that has high elements of criminal activity you have to reconsider you travel options. Use common sense.
It also depends a great deal about the type vehicle you are driving. In my case, I drive an '86 Ford F250 with a 460ci engine with a holly carbuerator which weighs approximately 7,000 pounds in its current setup. I will go through, push out of the way, etc. if I'm put in a dangerous situation. If there are issues of vehicle damage that's why I have insurance!
"Gun control is being able to hit your target."
August 26th, 2009 09:42 AM
When in traffic leave enough distance to move right or left if your car is approached. I know this won't help if your in multiple laned road and your stopped in a center lane. Do a walk around your car in parking lots. Always keep your gun in a holster.
August 26th, 2009 01:03 PM
Altercations with morons on the street or carjackings are common in bad neighborhoods. These days even the elite part of towns aren't immune to home invasions and carjackings.
Whenever you pull up at a red light, make sure your doors are locked, windows are up. If possible, try and tint your windows so the perp cannot see inside the car. Make sure you look around to see anyone walking up to your car from behind or notice the car pulling up next to you.
This is what I keep in my car:
My Glock 36 at 3 o'clock. Tear gas grenades that activate with a lever after 5 seconds. Pepper spray. Israeli military commando knife in leather sheath. I keep all these at arms length so I can use either of them appropriately.
A lot of carjackings happen at the mall where the security is a joke and the parking lots aren't lit well. If you notice someone shadowing you, wait till they go past you. Hang up your cell phone because that can be a huge distraction. Don't buy too many things at a time to carry. Make 2-3 trips to the car if you have to and secure everything in the trunk. If both your hands are occupied, you can't draw your weapon when the perp attacks.
Aerospace Designer, Freemason, NRA member
August 26th, 2009 01:24 PM
25 years ago when my Dad taught me to drive, he said you never pull up so close behind a car that you can't go around on a moments notice. Makes sure you can always see the bottom of their bumper, or lower, he said.
Originally Posted by puncho
In hindsight I suspect he was trying to avoid being stuck behind a broken down car, but it's applicable in the SA environment as well.
August 26th, 2009 01:31 PM
From the incidents heard from colleauges, carjackers will approach the driver or the passenger side window, break it, and do what they came to do. Tinting your windows would be nice to prevent an easy sight, and always having an escape route.
August 26th, 2009 06:27 PM
Another thing to consider, other than your gun flying off in a sudden stop or turn is the legality of having the gun on a seat. I dont know about your state, but in Ohio, even with a CHL, you can only have the gun in a holster on your person, in a glove box or center console or other lockable box with a lid that has to be latched to be opened or closed.
Gen 4 Glock 32 .357sig and SW M&P 15/22
Ohio CHL since 1/29/2009
PA Non-Res 10/12/2010
Those who trade liberty for security have neither. ~John Adams
August 26th, 2009 07:23 PM
Here in Detroit there has been another MO that was pretty common a few years back.
You are approaching a stop sign, and as you come to a stop the car behind you gives you a bump.
You get out to speak with the other driver and the guy who was standing at the corner jumps into your car and takes off.
A few years back there was a group of thugs that used basically the same trick to grab women and rape them.
Always keep your guard up.
Disclaimer: The posts made by this member are only the members opinion, not a reflection on anyone else, nor the group, and should not be cause for anyone to get their undergarments wedged in an uncomfortable position.
August 26th, 2009 08:41 PM
I was carjacked then (technically) kidnapped. I was held for almost an hour as they went from ATM to ATM.
It's a long story, but I was selling BMW and Jaguar when I was 19 and they came in for a test drive. I felt uneasy from the first moment, but against my better instinct, I went on the test drive. The gun came out and I was forced in to the back.
I fought my way out while the main guy was in the store at the ATM. It was absolutely horrible. I've always owned firearms, but this is what got me to carry (eventually), shooting schools and in to the self defense community all together.
It can happen in an instant. If he wasn't playing with what appeared to be a piece of piano wire, I may have stayed and prayed for it to end well. The wire made me feel otherwise. That was much more intimidating than the little .25, .32 or .380 he had.
Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe
August 26th, 2009 08:58 PM
Thanks for the great feedback.
Actually in MN, we can carry however we want (within reason-not brandishing it); even OC. Now, with that said, I would put it away during a traffic stop as to not alarm the LEO.
Originally Posted by justherenow
One more question:
Is the intent of the car jacking to go for a joy ride mostly? To sell the car over seas (see the Sopranos)? To part it out? Or use it to commit another felony? I assume everyone will say "yes to all", but is there a more typical reason?