September 16th, 2009 02:47 PM
In my estimation the BG lost his privalege to live the moment he laid hands on you. I'm not a martial arts expert and I'm not big and threatening. My age makes it no fun to be in a fight anymore. I probably would have defended myself.
Should you find yourself in a similar situation again, draw your weapon first, hide it by your leg and see what happens. There is no way this guy should have gotten close enough to grab you without looking down the barrel of your weapon first.
Mon. morning quarterbacking is a good thing. Hopefully, we learn to do things better. I'm glad you're OK. Be careful out there.
September 16th, 2009 03:48 PM
September 16th, 2009 04:03 PM
Yep! Thats about as close as it gets to having to pull that trigger! I'm glad your okay and it turned out the way it did.
Like Bark'n said hopefully you/I will be able to pull that trigger when the need arises.
September 16th, 2009 04:10 PM
I would still disagree,at the initial outset you have no idea if he is armed ,and trying to stop a threat from sitting in a vehicle will be difficult,a lot of LEO have been shot and killed before they were able to get out of their vehicles and he was within probably 5 yards of the suspect.A guy that just intentionally caused an accident,on a narrow curving road that the OP said if he tried to back up quick he may drive off the embankment.This could have turned uglier real quick,and this scenario can happen right in the middle of town,thinking about what you would do now is what this site is all about
Originally Posted by Blackeagle
"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
--Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .
September 16th, 2009 04:13 PM
I'm really glad you're ok. Very close call.
Yes, it's easy to draw a "mental line" and say that if someone crosses it, that's it, I'm going to shoot. Real life situations can always throw you for a loop. I sympathize.
However, your story makes me very grateful that, in Indiana, our "castle doctrine" specifically applies to automobiles as well. As soon as the guy tried to unlawfully enter my vehicle, deadly force is justified to prevent or terminate the unlawful entry, just as if he came in the front door of my house and started to throttle me, armed or unarmed.
You got lucky, and I'm glad for you.
September 16th, 2009 04:26 PM
Mississippi is the same way.
Originally Posted by EdC
GUN CONTROL= I WANT TO BE THE ONE IN CONTROL OF THE GUN
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed
September 16th, 2009 04:33 PM
I'm really glad that things worked out ok. Stay safe.
Could a DA argue that the guy in front felt threatened that he was going to be run off the road and was defending himself? I think that's a stretch, but wondered about it.
I have had people come up behind me in rural areas where this type of passing is common and be very aggressive, turning on their brights, etc. I will normally pull over if the road is clear and straight before me and it's daylight. At night or on hills or with a curve coming I won't. I have had people pull right up on my bumper with their brights on at night on very crooked rural roads known for deer and other hazards.
I think it's a good idea to let the person in front pull over first to indicate that he is ready for you to pass.
Once things escalated so far, I can't say I wouldn't have shot the guy at the point that he said he'd already killed someone and wasn't afraid of the gun. I probably would have.
One punch can kill. Nobody should have to take a beating just because the other guy doesn't have an obvious weapon. When a kid from my school started bragging that he'd hired 5 guys to beat me up (I took it as a compliment that he thought it would take 5) my dad checked with a police detective he knew who said that you always have the right to raise the level of violence in response to an attack. And that was in northern CA. Unfortunately he also said there was nothing he could do beforehand, because CA law was only punitive not preventative. The 5 guys never showed. Must have been just talk.
Last edited by CJ810; September 16th, 2009 at 04:35 PM.
Reason: Added additional comment.
September 16th, 2009 05:00 PM
Ah..............a Country Road Rage inncident.
Addressing a threat in one's car is never a good idea as you witnessed.
Maybe this might be a good place to have someone with you when you go that far off the beaten path...you could have been found in a shallow dug grave or something. Sounds like you were luck this time.
September 16th, 2009 05:16 PM
Nice job! Calm and rational! In spite of the guy's running his mouth, he recognized when he was in the "whoops" mode - crazy or not...
Glad to see your reaction - apparently calm and measured...that scares a lot of bad guys...trust me! You brought a smile to my weathered face today. Thanks!
Semper Vigilantia - Semper Paratus
NRA Life Member
September 16th, 2009 05:47 PM
There were lots of posts on here that asked questions about things and i'll try and address them.
Yes, I did call the police and report that I pulled a gun on this guy as soon as I got clear of the crazy guy and had clear cell phone service. I was taught that if you have ANY kind of altercation with your gun it's best to call the police and let them know so like someone on here said, HE doesn't call and say there's a crazy guy who just pulled a gun on me!
I agree he shouldn't have gotten close enough to be able to do anything like that, but seeing as how we'd just been in an accident I figured some encounter would take place, whether that's just exchanging info or whatever. If the guy came to my truck and said, hey sorry about that... or whatever, and i've got a gun pointed at him that probably wouldn't fly too well either. Like I said in my original post, it happened VERY fast. We got in the wreck and it seemed like 2 seconds later he was in my car, not much time to assess the threat til he was right on top of me.
I think if I had had to shoot this guy, I would've been very justified in doing so and don't believe there would be too much of a problem from the prosecutors.
Considering again, I'm the one in my car with the shirt that's been ripped, his fingerprints would've been on my door handle, and he would've been lying there right outside my door and not to be too gruesome, considering the close proximity I am sure there would be some blood/etc on me or the inside of my car. If his story WAS true about already having killed someone I don't think that would've been too hard to believe that he maybe perhaps wasn't completely reformed after those 12 years.
but again, who knows, I'm glad it didn't come to that.
Utah also has a castle doctrine considering your car to be a place where if someone enters you are justified in shooting them. I knew this, but again, did not feel that it was necessary to do so at the time considering he backed off enough and stopped pulling on my shirt/side of neck and didn't advance anymore once he was looking at my gun.
At that point I didn't consider him to still be engaging me I guess, although he was still very much a threat, he wasn't acting it out at that point if that makes sense.
Even though he didn't back up as far or as fast as I'd have hoped. I know that had he not gotten off I would have had to shoot him, or if he had come again at me then there would have been no choice.
Yes, It IS very hard to defend yourself inside a car with the seat belt on! He never was able to punch me, just pull my collar and on the side of my neck, not even so much choking, just trying to get me out of the car.
Luckily I was still able to get to my gun.
"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
September 16th, 2009 06:00 PM
Castle Doctrine in Texas includes your vehicle. Once said BG is opening your vehicle's door, all bets are off. No different that forcing their way into your home, and here in Texas you can meet that threat with whatever force you feel necessary, whether BG is armed or not.
Originally Posted by Cycler
I'm sure that's the same for any Castle Doctrine state that includes vehicles.
As for no witnesses, I'm sure the PD will fingerprint your car door, trajectory of shots fired, etc. I would like to think I'd show the same restraint as the OP, though, whether the law would be on my side or not.. Glad you are OK and didn't have to take a life!
*EDIT - I was surprised this wasn't addressed within a couple posts. So, as usual, I posted before reading the next page, and sure enough, a few guys covered it!
Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe
September 16th, 2009 06:35 PM
One suggestion: don't do that. By leaving it DA on the first shot, you're less likely to fire unintentionally. It's about the only legal protection you've got on the firearm. Best to use it, IMO.
Originally Posted by mustang00066
Question: What specific carry method were you using? In that situation of being forcibly yanked from the car, do you believe that a cross-draw during driving could have made it easier, from what you know of cross-draw?
Originally Posted by mustang00066
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
September 16th, 2009 06:59 PM
First off, I am very glad you are OK and no real harm was done.
I have been in a very similar situation and I can agree that things can go bad very, very fast. And I understand the many different emotions you went through and are probably still going through.
I think you did very well. I think you did the right thing by no shooting the moron. You were out in the middle of nowhere. Had you shot the fool, and I think you would have been 100% justified in doing so, it would have been your word against a dead man. He may or may not have been unarmed. If he was unarmed, how to you explain that? No video record of the event existed. I'm sure he would have loving relatives coming out of the woodwork screaming that he was a loving and gentel person who would never harm anyone. It could have been very bad for you.
You did the right thing, so long as you are sure in your own mind that after telling you he didn't care about your gun, had he come at you again, you would have shot him to protect your life. If you aren't sure of that, then your gun is much moreof a danger to you than any bad guy.
September 16th, 2009 07:41 PM
This just goes to show that you don't have to shoot . Just the presence of a gun can stop a lot of crap. I'm glad that your ok. You kept your cool and it probably saved your life.
September 16th, 2009 07:53 PM
When he put his hands on your neck and tried to pull you out of the truck.....isn't that assault?
I'm not saying you should have shot him, but if someone put their hands around my neck and tried to yank me out of my car, he's going to be met with fierce resistance.
I may be wrong, but I don't think a prosecutor would charge me.
Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. — Winston Churchill
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